RE-SPRINGING MY FZ1 and...Y (forks done /pix added)

[FUZ1ON]

I know it's fun to use this board for some "Comic Relief" at times but...check it out...

I'm sure there's a lot of guys here who figure they'll never have reason to fiddle with their suspension and the excuses/reasons are many...ie...

1. The stock suspension is fine for the way I ride.
2. I won't have the bike that long.
3. I'll just keep locking down the oem damping and spring pre-load.

And on and on...but...I'm sure there's some egghead/techno-wrench types here that will be very interested in this testing between Straight-Rate and Progressive Re-springing.

"Where I'm At With This Issue"....

My '01 FZ1 is two years young and I've got'er engine as hot rodded out as possible (with-out getting into the block/head)...Full Yosh TRS, Ivans MB Jet Kit, X-Over Manifold and she's tuned tits and almost has the ability to hyper-extend my elbows and shoulders at WFO after 9K rpms..and it's all I can do to hang on through 1st and 2nd but...I haven't been real happy with my stock suspension for about the last year or so.

My new meZ4 tire profiles did make a marked dif in the handling but...even though I maxed out the stock oem spring pre-loads over 9 months ago???...The bikes suspension is shot and my stock oem springs are...well...sprung.

"WHY DO I SAY THAT???"...

Easy...Things were fairly cool with the oem suspension up till the 10,000 mile mark...at least so I thought...but she started feeling a bit gooshy and wallowy up top..no big deal though...and maxing out my oem pre-loads both front and rear revived things a bit but...alas...at the 17,000 mile mark...it's time. My Two Wheeled Vette Needs New Shocks!

The front springs seem to still be hanging in there but I know they have little life left and the rear???...Even set at max pre-load about the first 25% of travel is spongy as hell. And...something happened recently that told me I'd better "GET ON IT"....check this out...

On my way home from "The Ocala FZ1 Ride/Meet" I was hauling butt southbound on I-95....(had to make it back to my wifes birthday party at my parents house on time and as usual...I was running late)...the flow of minimal traffic on this desolate section of interstate was running 80-90mph...I was cruising @ roughly 90-100mph...and I musta hit a section of pavement that had a bit of a ripple to it...so slight that you couldn't actually see it...and the best way I can describe what happened is this...The front end of my FZ1 began displaying a somewhat violent "PORPOUSING"...The handlebars where jumping in my hands like a jack-hammer...like I was going over speed bumps except...the speed bumps weren't there! WTF!!!

Immediately I figured I musta either lost a wheel weight up front or...I was in the middle of getting a rapid flat front tire...and as I rolled off and moved my weight forward to look up front???....It stopped...back to glassy smooth....then...after I assumed all was well again???...I slid back and commenced speed...and again with the porpousing $hit!

I didn't figure it out till a day or two later...but here's what I believe was happening...

With my front pre-load maxed out and still a bit of life in the springs...and my rear being so spongy (even though it too is maxed out)...there was a slight ripple to that section of pavement...and as my front wheel encountered it???...it transfered the "ACTION" to my spongy rear which allowed the front to "RE-ACT" the way it did. How do I know that???...Because when I shifted my weight forward (putting more weight on the front while relieving the rear) It Stopped Happening.

Now while I'm certain that my Fastbag lightly packed and fully compressed with a weekends worth of clothing and essentials didn't help things much...it wasn't the determining culprit either...but added just enough rear weight to give me some advanced warning that my stock oem suspension is shot. And....that was my calling card that lemme know...it's way past time for me to Re-Shock my two wheeled Vette!

Proving that...Outside of Faith???...Nothing lasts forever...and neither does stock suspenion....so it's time....and my full range of Traxxion Straight Rate Springs are here...thought I'd share that with you cause I'm gonna have a busy weekend installing them.

L8R..Bill.

[cyclenerd]

Bill,

Why do you attribute the degradation in handling to worn springs? Has the sag changed without you making a change in the preload settings, for instance? Why would you not attribute the degradation to a change in the damping characteristics?

-Ron

[FUZ1ON]

1. Why do you attribute the degradation in handling to worn springs?

See answer to question #2.

2. Has the sag changed without you making a change in the preload settings, for instance?

Yes...it has...and for futher info see answer to question #3.

3. Why would you not attribute the degradation to a change in the damping characteristics?

Who says I ruled out damping???...I haven't..and while I'm fairly certain it may be playing some small role here I don't see it as the "Primary Culprit" in my case and here's why...

From Day 1 questions and accusations and complaints arose that the FZ1 is "Too Lightly Sprung". Some of our more portly types (like myself @ 235lbs) even cited they could not achieve proper static/sag with the oem gear (springs)...many of us resorted to just locking things down and maxing out our rear spring pre-loads. And since then???....Although I haven't taken any measurments I can now feel that my FZ squats a bit further than it used to when I initially mount it and...(this is the important part)...seems to rise a bit slower when I dis-mount...in other words...spongy...as in sagging rear spring. It's been maxed out, over-loaded and...ridden hard for over 17,000 miles now.

Life is full of dirty little secrets and lessons learned and...through the recent self-re-education I've put myself through regarding suspension it's starting to get much easier understanding and getting a read on certain issues such as...

"THE LESSON LEARNED"

Although our damping is "Adjustable" it still operates within a "Finite Range".

A valve is a valve and damping is damping...and while more compression damping can be used to aid a springs compression as less damping can accelerate a springs rebound???...in an ideal world they should not be used to aid a springs short comings relating to the sprung weight of a bike and it's rider as...their primary purpose/mission is to quell and control..."Dampen"...the springs action and re-action.

Damping Valves and their Fluids don't know or care how much you weigh...they have very little to do with the actual suspension of the bike and once the load is stabilized they become ambient components as their job is over until...an event occurs that causes the spring to compress and then rebound/recover...that's when the damping valves come into play by controlling the "Damping" of the springs action and re-action...which in turn also influences the speeds/rates of the springs actions and re-actions. And now???....

"THE DIRTY LITTLE SECRET"

Keeping the above information in mind...How ludicrist would it be of us to assume that finitely adjusted damping valves would or could effectively cover the wide range of damping needs a "Progressive Spring" would produce and require throughout all levels of travel/compression?....Pretty silly when ya look at it that way...hugh? And this is why pro suspension tuners have such a great affinity towards constant/straight rate springs. They can easily and accurately valve them for effective damping throughout thier over-all travel..and...yeild a very predictable suspension.

And yeah..Yamaha uses progressive springs as oem gear and gets to brag that they give/offer "Fully Adjustable Suspension" but...their purpose for using progressive springs is because...their focus on stock suspension is more of a concern of how well the bike will handle with a variety of..."Weights & Loads"...so basically...they seem to use the top half of the forks for 1 up and the bottom half for two up riding! And...that's why in all honesty...our @$$e$ or suspension can't tell the difference between 6 clicks out or 8 clicks out on our damping...at what weight?...or at what level of compression/travel?..We don't know...and neither do those damping valves or our @$$eS! But I'm certain there's a 1/4" of travel hidden in there somewhere where those damping valves are doing one hell of a job!

Our oem valves are somewhat adjustable however they operate within a finite range....but.....(as racerman shared with us)...The system can be cheated and your stock oem valving enhanced by using/trying different/lighter weight suspension fluids. But...I've learned that those springs are the heart of the matter..and mine are shot...so I'm chang'in'em.

Does that answer your questions?

[FUZ1ON]

This is the first time I'm attempting to use the thumbnail feature as requested by our admins so bare with me here..I think it'll work..just click on the image to enlarge....

The thumbnail below is the harware Max from Traxxion sent me...(1) set of 1.0 weight front springs, (1) set of 1.1 weight front springs, (1) 600lb HyperCoil Rear Spring (which btw wreeks quality and is very sweet looking with a rubberized plasti-coat navy blue finish) and (2) qts. of 7 weight Traxxion/Maxima fork fluid.



And here's a cool Vise/Fixture/Jig I designed and machined up out of 2 1/2" x 2" T-6 bar stock...I call it my "Tuning Fork Vise-Clamp"



I used a single point boring head to machine the fork hole itself to 1.696"s...about .002 oversize to the upper fork tube OD of 43mm's....it works great...just slide the fork in and tighten the vise and viola! The fork is secure and ready to work on!



Oh well....back to the garage...got lotz ta do ya know...

[FUZ1ON]

Sorry guys...my FZ's been up on blocks for a while...had to do the family thing last memorial day weekend and worked days all last week moving our machines to a new building..but this weekend??? Wrench Time..and..I got the re-springing of front forks completed at least...and here's how it went..

The photo below shows from left to right...Traxxion 315mm x 1.0, Traxxion 315mm x 1.1 and the OEM Stock Progressive. And...the new set of SS Spacer tubes (required to compensate for oal difs in springs) I machined to length. (just click the pics to enlarge)



All told things went fairly well..although...I didn't have a "damper rod puller" for fishing the damper rod up out of the fork oil once my fork oil level was set at 5.5 inches and then slid the new springs down in there bringing the oil level up too 5"s even...but I did sleep at a Holida Inn Express and had plenty of small vise grips handy and my ever so trusty 12" hemostats! So I went fishing for my damper rod end and...Hey Dad! I Caught One!



Then I played "Catch The Sinking Damper Rod" as I slipped on the washer/seat and spacer and finally the "Jam Nut"...then it was slide the damper plunger rod in...screw the fork cap/pre-load adjuster assy on top and finall tighten the jam nut and viola...and now came...the moment of truth..."Did I hit my desired static preload number of 15mm's using traxxions 315mm long springs?????"...... Answer?...no. I missed by 1mm for a total of 14mm's static pre-load. Good Enough!



My forks now feel reeeallll sweet...but now...I gotta start jerking that rear shock outta there!!! L8R!!!

[FUZ1ON]

Well guys...I know I'm moving slow here but...I'm anylizing a bunch of stuff here (Such as Torque Wrenchs ) as I go and tackeling things as time allows for a working father of three. But...

I've finished re-springing and re-mounting my front forks using Traxxions 1.0 weight front springs and 7 weight fork oil and...decided you guys might enjoy a "Test Ride" report of a "Just The Front" re-springing upgrade (before I tackled the rear and still running the oem rear spring) and to be quite honest...I myself couldn't wait to try'em out. And...Here's how it went...

Note: This test was done with front rebound and compression settings left "As They Were" with the stock front springs with just the Traxxion 1.0 front springs installed while still running the stock oem rear spring.

My first enlightenment came as soon as I brought my FZ1 down off it's center-stand as I immediately noticed that my FZ1's static/sag had taken on this new attitude...Even with the preload adjusters left out to line #3 the front remained high 'n tight as the rear did it's "Cotton-Tail" thing and squatted like a female puppy dog relieving itself! It was almost "Chopperesque" feeling.

Next???...I rolled the bike too and fro tapping the front brakes to check for front end feel/dive and...even with my highest level of physical exersion???....I doubt I could barely get the front to compress/travel/dive 1/4".

Enough of this foolishness....Time to Ride...

Naturally the first thing I wanted to check out was "front end dive" and...hard front braking yeilded what felt like half the amount I had been used to dealing with in the past with the oem front springs...or...the travel was soaking it up so consistantly that it felt that way to me. Meanwhile???......the oem cotton-tail rear felt like it was "rising during front braking" moreso than what I recall and felt like leaky airshocks on a '73 impala!

Next was "Ride Quality"....The front was a bit "Harsher" than the oem's at dead top but...I believe this will change quite a bit once I get the much stiffer 600lb Hypercoil Rear Spring installed and the bikes ride hiegth (Front to Rear) tuned and adjusted putting more weight forward however....I did nail some nasty grades and bumps on purpose to check out how the front might feel and...it was awesome. My front forks apparent increased travel gobbled the grades and bumps up with not much more shock than what was being felt during the genal riding while the stock sprung rear swingarm kicked and slapped.

I'm very happy with what I felt from the front so far and pretty psych'ed about getting this rear shock re-sprung now as I will be able to get the bike back on an even kilter front to rear...I'll test and report more at that time. Bill.

[max@traxxion.com]

Can't you just delegate this work to your "pit crew"???

[FUZ1ON]

1. I had prior commitments to be with my family through the memorial day weekend.

2. My job has me working with a "Rigger" outfit moving machines into a new building for the last two weeks.

3. My daughters are out of school but summer camp hasn't started yet.

4. I'm taking my time as I wanna get it right and possibly design some new tools along the way for making the job easier. And....

5. I gave my "PIT CREW" the summer off!

Silly me.

[FUZ1ON]

Well...I've had my rear shock out of the bike for two days now...I tried using the "Hose Clamp Method" of compressing the rear spring but....I gave it up as...this method is sketchy at best and can strip the coating off the spring (as it did my stock spring)...besides that???...there's a "Safety Factor" involved...the hose clamp screws were begining to "Gaul" and...you could snap a wrist in a heart beat if something gives way. Sooo...I decided this needs to be done properly....ham n' eggs should be limited to breakfast hours!

At first I thought I might machine something up but...for the time, effort and materials it would take to make a good spring compressor there are other less troublesome, costly ways..as I've learned.

Upon my arrival at "Auto Zone" to rent a Mcpherson Strut Compressor???...I tok my whole shock assy in to make certain there are no "Fit/Application" issues...there were....the spring hook clamps didn't fit between the coils...but they only missed by a little bit...sooo...I bought my own set for modification...cheap enough at $34.95 for the set.

[FUZ1ON]

Required quite a bit of material removal in order for the lips/hooks to fit between the spring coils but...1 hour with a hand grinder and cut-off wheels got the job done (2 sets/ 4 ends fit/modify)...then it was just a deburr'em & polish'em up so they don't scratch anything kinda deal...

(click it or ticket..uhhhh...I mean to "Enlarge")



Next was...put'em into action....



I used my air/impact gun to compress'em and it was a breeze...rat-a-tat-tat-tat....rat-a-tat-tat-tat and....it's a simple valve spring like retainer set-up. And...once it's removed simply un-compress the spring and slide it off the hydraulic damper cylinder.

I'm fancying mine up a bit and waiting for some paint to dry...then???.... I'll install the new 600LB Hypercoil spring and re-install the shock in the bike later this evening.

[FUZ1ON]

No ones commenting or posting here in this thread besides me sooo.....I just realized I'm getting that "Talking to Myself" feeling...guess I'll stop now.

[houkah]

alright, alright i am riveted did you get the rear spring in or what and how much did it improve the ride?

[blackone]

Hope you are gonna give that shock a good scrub before you bung that spring on...
All jokes aside, am looking forward to your thoughts when you go for a test ride. Got a feeling that the new firmer rear spring will overwhelm the stock damping though.

[fastnfurious7]

We're reading, Bill...please proceed.

[FUZ1ON]

You guys twisted my arm ...here goes...is this clean enough for ya blackone?



Now....I don't know if I missed something here but...this swapping out the rear spring deal is somewhat of a freaking bear. I'm not sure how or what PJ and the boys have been using to compress their hyperpro kit rear springs but...The modified mcpherson strut compressors and a full size air impact gun IMO is the bare minimum a guy "should be" using to do this job.

Traxxions Hyperco Spring has beautifully flat ground ends and is heavily powdercoated to a glossy deep blue finish...now don't get me wrong here as I can appreciate "Creative Engineering" as much as anybody when it comes to doing what you hafta do to get a certain job done but....I wouldn't wanna take a chance on chawing up such a nice looking spring or...risk breaking a wrist by using anything less than the sort of hardware I used myself and shared here.

Now...I've made a major production out of doing this job but...armed with the tools and knowledge I've shared here???...The savy home mechanic should be able to swap out springs (Front & Rear Including Modifying The Compressor Hooks/Lips) in a single day or less...ie...

8 Hours?......you're "Homer Simpson":p
6 Hours?......Ya did "OKAY"
4 Hours?......You Rock!
Anything less???...Your a Mechanical Prodigy.

Tomorrow is..."DIAL-IN DAY" for my FZ's newly sprung suspension. I'm going to try an hit the "Ride Heigth/Sag Numbers" and then???...attempt to dial in the damping including some min/max damp test reports/info.

I know it's going to be vastly different feeling...I'll just hafta determine wether it's for better or for worst and pray it won't turn out to be too harsh for the touring part of.."sport/tour".

L8R...Bill.

[blackone]

Allright Billy!!!
Now don't you feel better now that shock is all nice and purty.
Be interesting to see how you go with the new springs.

Cheers
Frank

[FUZ1ON]

The job is COMPLETED!!!

At first???...I thought "Oh $hit"...cause after installing the raer shock???...when I took the bike down off the centerstand???..it was like...

BOING! BOING! BOING!!!!

And that's when I realized....Jinks You Idiot!....In my excitement to try it out I forgot to reset the rebound damping!

But this was a good thing cause...it let me know that...NOW???....when I adjust "DAMPING"...(unlike before)...It Actually Means Something!!!

I haven't played with her much...just set everything to mid settings and so far???...I Freaking Love It!!!

And the best part is...Now "Dialing Her In" and...Making Micro Tweaks to the suspension tuning won't be such a craps shoot!

Think about it guys...A 600LB spring is only 25% stronger than the stock oem softy that ways to forgiving and mushy for our 180lb + body weights...our body weight "IS" the "extra damping" required!

Anyways....I can tell already...she's gonna be both...Tight & SchweeeeT!!!!

L8R! Bill.

[Falcon 269]

Good work, Bill. I'd be diving for cover doing that kind of job. A thought occurs to me, though. I'm assuming that you're reusing the original shock - or did I miss something at the start of this thread?

If it is the original, how many miles did you have on the shock body before changing the spring? Any reason to think your shock itself isn't as sound as it was when new? Is there any way of checking it? There's been a few posts about shocks 'expiring' after 5k miles or so, losing their damping qualities as a result. Did you (can you, even) change the damper oil in the shock? I'd be a little concerned that a new, stronger weight spring could prove too much for a 'tired' shock body. What do you think?

Cheers,

GTX

[FUZ1ON]

Answers too Mike...

"I'm assuming that you're reusing the original shock - or did I miss something at the start of this thread?"

No...you didn't miss anything Mike and you are correct in your assumption that I'm "Re-Using" the original shock.

"If it is the original, how many miles did you have on the shock body before changing the spring?"

Just over 17,000 miles...BTW...it's off an '01 model so it two years young as well!

"Any reason to think your shock itself isn't as sound as it was when new?"

Uhhh...yeah...maybe because it's two years old with 17K miles on it??? Other than that...No. All the hardware seems to be in fine order and working condition.

"Is there any way of checking it?"

Personally???...I have no idea...although I would think there is as the shock is...."Fully Re-buildable". But...this would require special equipment and adapted fittings to check such things as...."Nitrogen Charging" pressures.

"There's been a few posts about shocks 'expiring' after 5k miles or so, losing their damping qualities as a result. Did you (can you, even) change the damper oil in the shock?"

I wish I could change the shock oil as...if the fork oil was any indication???...The shock oil is definately due but...I haven't the knowledge or equipment necessary and thus far???..The shock body itself seems to have sufficiently retained it's damping qualities enough so as to effectively cope with damping the new 600lb spring. Matter of fact???...the new spring has seemed to make the damping adjustments a bit more..."Defined". And I mean that in a good way.

"I'd be a little concerned that a new, stronger weight spring could prove too much for a 'tired' shock body. What do you think?"

I think you can put your concerns to rest Mike.

IMO...so far this re-springing absolutely rox and I'd recommend it to anyone over 180lbs and here's why.

"THE 600LB REAR SPRING".....

Gentlemen....this is "The Ticket" for us more portly types and the best way I can describe it is....

"The 600LB Rear Spring Picks Up Exactly Where The Stock Rear Spring Leaves Off"

In other words....and to give you a really accurate idea of what you would expect to feel????...The 600LB spring when adjusted too "Min Pre-Load" settings feels just like the stocker when it's adjusted too "MAX Pre-Load" settings.

And I thought...NOW HOW COOL IS THAT!!! Because....Now???....Us more portly types (such as myself at 230lbs w/ gear) no longer hafta abuse and lock down our damping in order to make up for what is in essence...."A Weight Deficient Spring".

And now???...I can dedicate and adjust my damping to do it's intended job...which is...."Damping"...exclusively. As my FZ is now "Properly Sprung".

And now???...."THE DISCLAIMER"...

I don't know who thinks they're fooling who around here and..I really don't much care but...I do care about..."What Works For Me"....and...tossing a grand at professionally upgrading/rebuilding the suspenders on my 2 years old $7,000 street bike???...or...making a $1,500 phone call to the nearest Ohlins Distributor???...."THAT"...don't work for me.

So...I look at it this way...the FZ always has been noted from day one as being a bit soft in the rear and...after two years and 17K miles my springs were getting to the point that I was begining to notice some "Additional Sag" and...it was time to "REFRESH" the suspension and....That's what I did...for a measly $200 and a $35 spring compressor.

Also...I'll be keeping and riding my FZ1 long term...at least that's my plans...sooo....I'm gonna make prudent decisions along the way and wring the most out of everything..including the suspension. As in...at 17K miles a $200 Refreshing/Re-Springing of both front and rear "Works For Me"...and??...when I hit the 50K mile mark???...Then...I'll make the call to "Penske" for a whole new rear shock assy..but..till then???...This is good enough...matter of fact???...Better than good enough...matter of fact???....Waaaaaay better than new!

I'm loving it guys!!!...This has worked out very, very, very, extremely cool!

More to report L8R, Bill.

[Falcon 269]

Thanks Bill.

I've helped a dozen or more Fazer owners check their rear suspension settings in the past month, and I would now take a money bet that anyone over 200lbs needs full spring preload to get the right amount of rider sag, and full compression damping to control it. So, the stronger spring has got to be a good thing, IMHO.

I'm glad that your standard shock still has life in it. I agree, a strip and oil change would be nice to do, but it's not for us DIY types. I'll be amazed if your stock shock lasts until 50k miles, though

As for me; well, since the '04 models haven't addressed any of the suspension issues, don't come with FI and the colour schemes are uninspiring, I think my trade-up funds will be going on a Technoflex shock and a fork job, rather than a brand new machine.

Cheers,