2006 FZ-1 Dyno charts - Restricted HP

[Ivan]

Here you go guys....

This is a US model and is completely stock...

[Ivan]

More charts...

[300lbGorilla]

That is truly odd. Thanks for posting!

Fooled that sensor yet?

[Scrutinizer]

Quite a difference in torque at 7500...and the old model looks better too! Interesting info Ivan, glad I didn't know there was a new model when I got my '05! Of course, 1st year models of anything are a risk to buy IMO...But hey, those USD forks are quite cool looking!

[wArDoG]

I can't wait to see what Ivan squeezes out of that bad boy.

BTW what color did you get Ivan?

[Lars]

Hmm try read this it took me two minute to Google

While Dynojet’s founder, Marc Dobec, now admits that he “factored” (inflated by ~10% to 20%) their reported power results (to avoid unhappy customers), that’s only part of the explanation for those Hp variations between gears. Here are some of the other:

a) The transmission’s inefficiency losses worsen with the steeper reduction ratios of the lower gears. Testing nearer to 1:1 yields the best power transfer. In fact, many automotive manual transmissions flow the power straight thru the main shaft in 4th gear, eliminating all but the negligible roller bearing drag.

b) In lower gears additional torque is transmitted through the system to the tires. If the dynamometer’s rolls do not have effective traction grooving, slippage will become significant. Nothing scrubs off delivered power like wasting energy as heat at the tires to roll interfaces.

c) Many engine’s fuel mapping is more accurate under near steady state conditions than during rapid acceleration. During rapid transient conditions the fuel and ignition mapping are running off of additional acceleration tables or carburetor squirt pumps. These enrichment features are adequate to keep the engine from stumbling, but rarely are tuned close enough to eke out the last few foot-pounds.

d) Engine temperatures are usually still coming up during the first few gears of an acceleration pull. This includes cooling jackets, piston skirts and crowns, combustion chambers, exhaust runners, etc. While, depending on tuning, some engines will loose power as they thermally stabilize, many others will gain power as they normalize in high gerar.

Of course, the more you work with dynamometer testing the more you learn to take advantage of this knowledge. Those that test - know what works!

[Lars]

Sorry. But you can run a spec sheet

Chassis dynos are great tuning aids but they only give a approximation of power output as some of the important variables are not accurately controlled. Certain magazines seem to think that results obtained from chassis dynos are the gospel. They are not. In one recent independent test, hp figures varied by 11% simply by doing the runs in different gears and in another test, results varied by almost 4 % by doing the runs with a different wheel/tire combination. Tire alignment has been shown to affect results up to 3% as well. Note that Engine hp DID NOT change here yet the dyno recorded an increase in hp at the wheels. A change in wheels/tires also does not affect true, wheel hp either, only the rate of change on the rollers and the vehicle acceleration on the road. One can only conclude that inaccurate moments of inertia and correction factors are being used

[Desmo]

Ivan, do you have a chart that shows the differences in HP between gears on the original FZ1? Would be interesting to compare!

[Lars]

There google it. There are tons of material explaning this.

[Desmo]

Thanks, but Google doesn't have what I was asking for.

Im asking Ivan if he's got some specific charts for comparison.


BTW - Im betting this thread will start getting very testy pretty soon with
many 06 owners feeling "attacked".

Lets try and keep an even keel ok?

[DTfz]

Originally Posted by Desmo

Thanks, but Google doesn't have what I was asking for.

What about the ninja?

[wArDoG]

Originally Posted by DTfz

What about the ninja?

Here ya go

[FizDog]

Originally Posted by Desmo

Ivan, do you have a chart that shows the differences in HP between gears on the original FZ1? Would be interesting to compare!

Neenja says excellent question!

[Pat Glenn]

More on dyno measurement effects that result in less apparent horsepower when lower gears are used:

So, why would a dyno show less power in 1st gear than in 4th gear? The engine is producing the exact same amount of power, the only change is the gear the transmission is in. The answer: In first gear the engine can accelerate the dyno wheel more quickly because of the mechanical advantage it has (lower transmission gear). To accelerate the dynamometer wheel requires the same amount of work in 1st gear and in 4th gear. Because it happens in less time in first gear it must take more horsepower. horsepower = work / time. If you reduce the amount of time and if work remains the same the horsepower must be higher (this is realized as greater horsepower "loss" as it was horsepower "required" to do the "work" of spinning the dynamometer wheel).

http://www.superstang.com/horsepower.htm#realworld1

The '06 may, in fact, be electronically power restricted in lower gears but there are other reasons why a dyno might indicate that.

Pat

[trenchtractor]

The lower gear thing was my first reaction when I saw the claim that the bike is making less power in the first few gears... But then my experience with the dyno is limited to the work I did with the Buell when trying to get better results that the factory race kit for much cheaper. I spent a lot of time working with the local guru on the dyno and picked up little tid bits of information, like the reason you do dyno pulls is 4th gear... My days pf spending that sort of money for private gain are over.

But lets face it, Ivan IS a professional bike tuner, he does develop his own gear... Surely if he was doing the same ground work for other models and other manufacturers, he would have seen the sort of difference we are talking about between gears before. He doesn't seem to be the sort of guy to go screaming 'the sky is falling...' for no reason.

So he says quite rationally that there is some power reduction in the first few gears... I accept that on face value.

Having said all that, I'm with Desmo... I want to see the charts and compare.

I know that when a solution for the power reduction in lower gears is sorted, I'll be in line to make a purchase... But part of me wonders how many people will really be able to use it?? As the bike is you can be quite agressive with very little backlash, it is quite user friendly. This is going to make it a weapon.

[Ivan]

I don't have individual gear tests of the old model when it was stock..... but I do have all gear runs. (there never was a reason to do these tests)

If someone who has an all stock carbureted model wants to stop in, I'll do the same test.

I can also do it with any of these...take your pick...
2001 FZ-1 (engine kitted)
1998 R1 (engine kitted)
2004 ZX10 (full exhaust & remapped)
2006 ZX10 (full exhaust & remapped)
2006 ZX14 (TRE fitted)

The 2006 R6 has the exact same speed based hp limiting system as the 2006 FZ-1.
(I have the dyno charts to back this up as well)

Why would people not believe what I have shown here?

Ivan

[trenchtractor]

Originally Posted by Desmo

Ivan, do you have a chart that shows the differences in HP between gears on the original FZ1? Would be interesting to compare!

LOL

Thanks for the question Desmo, I look forward to comparing bikes soon!

[trenchtractor]

Originally Posted by Ivan

The 2006 R6 has the exact same speed based hp limiting system as the 2006 FZ-1.
(I have the dyno charts to back this up as well)

Why would people not believe what I have shown here?

Ivan

Why do people insist on answering rhetorical questions?? Who knows. Someone just went off half cocked.

Serious on the R6 issue?? Reckon you can sort out both bikes with the same technology?? I'm an electronics tech and have to tell you engineers are lazy... You'd know what I mean when you think about the suzuki power reduction.

You'd be on a winner with the R6 croud, my brother (Ben) is 120kg and rides an '06 FZ6. His mate (Kirt) is 85KG and rides an '06 R6.

Kirts bike is getting flogged around the tight stuff but is nigh on impossible to catch once it opens up on the high speed stuff. He's extremely frustrated that my fat arsed brother on the cheap bike can flog him around the tight stuff. You get that HP reduction sorted for the R6 and you are on a winner. I am surprised (but glad ) you aren't concentrating on the R6 first, garanteed to sell one right here...

[Ivan]

You'd know what I mean when you think about the suzuki power reduction.

The Suzuki system does not affect full throttle operation as far as HP is concerned.

It does affect part throttle operation, and on some models, a lower rev-limit in top gear.
------------------------------------------------

The Yamaha system is quite different, and is the first of it's type.



Ivan

[zenbiker]

Originally Posted by wArDoG

I can't wait to see what Ivan squeezes out of that bad boy.

BTW what color did you get Ivan?

Ivan, you squeeze, I'll buy.

The most interesting dyno chart for me is the old FZ vs the new. I thought the new FZ had a "more powerful engine"...

there I go, quoting Yamaha propaganda again.