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technical tips

Go Back   FZ1OA Message Board > FZ1 & Fazer Owners Association > FZ1 Problems & Issues > Gen 1 Problems & Issues

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Old 06-24-2005, 09:45 PM   #1
RavenRider
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Water Pump Leak Through the pan???? PICTURES ADDED FINALLY

If this don't beat all. Hundred and hundreds of clutch up wheelies and no problem with the clutch in 43K miles.

A water leak through the pan at the drain pipe hole through the pan.

I figure it (the drain pipe) has to be located between the water pump seal and the oil seal so the water won't pressurize the space and leak to the oil pump or visvera.

How bad is this to do and do I need the seal installer or can I get by using a socket to set the seal in the housing.

Or is this one of those you just spring for the new pump assembly and cry a lot about the price.

YO Fast Frank, need the expert here for this one me thinks.

This will probably end up another tech tip entry by Fast Frank.
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Old 06-24-2005, 11:18 PM   #2
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Hi Glenn,

What a PITA.

I haven't seen Fast Frank around here for a while, but I can tell you that there's 2 seals in the water pump that you'll need to replace. Both can be drifted out/installed without special tools. Your workshop is bound to have what you need.

You'll be stripping the pump assemble to change the seals, so you'll have the chance to check bearing wear then. You don't have to change the pump. Bearings and seals are separate service items.

Mike
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Old 06-25-2005, 12:19 AM   #3
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Thanks Mike.

I'll drop the pan tomorrow and get a look at the shaft to see if it is still good.

Yes Sir, figured to replace all the seals and just check the bearings and the shaft before ordering up the parts.

Damn, five guys managed to get off this week end and I'll be turning wrenches and waiting for parts.

For the life of me I could't figure where the water (antifreeze) was coming from.

No water in the oil so that is one positive thing.

Thanks again Mike.
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Old 06-25-2005, 12:33 AM   #4
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Hope you get it sorted soon - it's a real bummer to be off the road at the weekend!

Let us know how it goes, eh? You could be doing the tech tip tutorial in Fast Frank's absence

Wonder where Frank's got to lately ...

Mike

PS. There's also an o-ring sealing the 2 halves of the pump. I believe it's re-usable, but you might want to check with your Yamaha dealer when you're ordering up the rest of the parts.
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Old 06-25-2005, 01:00 AM   #5
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I'll probably order on line from Mr Cycles. Met the owner at the Gap Rally and trully a nice guy.

The whole shibang,with all the seals and O rings looks to be about $45 to $50 US,and that one for the pump body is only $5.44 so I'll probably just order in a new one.

Bearings are $10 US each and 2 required so I may just put in new so I don't have to worry about it.

Oh well, if it was running I'd need to put on a tire by the end of the week as well.
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Old 06-25-2005, 01:36 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by RavenRider
No water in the oil so that is one positive thing.
That's why the weep hole is there.
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Old 06-25-2005, 07:36 PM   #7
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Well I took most of the afternoon getting the engine clean enough to open the pan and get the pumps out of the engine.

Not as easy as I thought.

All the water lines must be removed from the engine that run to the pump.

Once the pan was off it was still a job getting the pump out of the bottom.

Once I get every thing together to put it back together I'll post up pictures of everything and the things I learned that are not in the manual that are requred to get it out of the engine.

Got to order parts now.
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Old 06-29-2005, 11:30 PM   #8
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OOPS...

I guess I've been slacking here!

It sounds like you've got a grip on this. It's not all that big of a deal.

Like you said, replacing all of the seals and bearings is a good idea to avoid having to do it twice.

I would replace the rubber seals where the cooling pipes go through the cases too, for the same reason.

good luck, and I will try to answer quicker next time!


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Old 06-29-2005, 11:48 PM   #9
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Frank,

Man, glad to see you back. Missed you here for a while.

Ya,I got to it OK,but the manual doesn't mention a thing about the hollow dowel pin (long one) that has to be pulled with a needle nose before the pump will move at all.

I couldn't see anything wrong with the mechanical seal. Both faces looked good.

But the shaft of the impeller shows two polished rings where it runs in the seals,so I desided to just replace it.

Shit, took me over half a day to get there, so don't want to do this again for at least another 40K+.

Part should be here tomorrow I hope and I'll post up picks of the operation.
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Old 07-12-2005, 09:14 PM   #10
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Sorry for the long delay posting pictures.

The ones I have are not as good as I would have hoped.

I'll try to give a replay to the events as best I can, how this played out so anyone getting the opportunity to enjoy this job will have it a bit easier than I made it.

I did this job with the engine in the frame,wished I'd had a lift or a hoist to pick it up in the air to work on it.

I would recommend getting the Clymer Manual to supplement the factory manual,much more in depth procedures for every task provided.

Ok here goes nothing. Plenty of paper towels and shop rags at hand.

Scrub down the motor till it is super clean, Simple Green works well.

The usual and more have to come off the engine.

Radiator (drain coolant).

Engine drain the oil and I mean as much as possible,lean bike or place on the side stand, don't ask why,just do it.

Pull the shifter and foot peg to get the front sprocket cover off.

Unplug the neutral indicator wire (under the left side panel).
Pull the wire all the way down under the bike.

Exhaust completely out of there. Service EXUP junk.

The leak was in the water pump so it weeped from a weep hole in the pan on to the pipes. Get to clean up that mess now as well.

Loosen the pan bolts a bit at a time, then drop the pan, be prepared for some oil as well.

All the hoses and hard lines going in to the pump through the cases must be removed. The hoses from the radiator will have some coolant in them so be prepared with a pan or get wet and slimy

When removing the oil lines and the pick up tube have a pan under there as they will still be full of oil.

Put components in separate plastic bags with their bolts, as they have different length bolts and some require LT when re-installed.

The drive chain cover bolts (for the pump drive) are two that use LT.

The SHOULDERED socket head cap screw bolt that holds the pump in place should be the last one removed.

NOTE: there is a long dowel pin under that bolt that must be removed (pulled out with a needle nose pliers). There is a notch in the pump boss to allow you to get hold of it. The shop manual does not mention this pin, but does show it it the drawing.

The whole assembly needs to move towards the foot brake side of the engine. It may require a small pry bar or large screw driver to get it to move.

BE GENTLE AND GO SLOW, once it starts to move it'll slide to the side.

The assembly now needs to be tipped up on the chain side so the chain can be slipped off the sprocket.

Now it's out, and you can wipe the oil out of your ear.

I disassembled the pump and could NOT see a thing wrong or any wear on the mechanical seal that was leaking.
I suspect a small partial got in between the surfaces of the mechanical seal some how????? and thus the leak.

I ordered in the seals and one bearing as well as the O-rings to put it back together. Too damn much work to get there.

I had a hell of a time getting the fixed side of the mechanical seal out of the pump housing. Finally resorted to heat and that helped to get the bonding agent to release.

This first pic is the wheelie monster stripped to the bones.
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File Type: jpg wheelie monster gutted.jpg (109.4 KB, 2400 views)
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Old 07-12-2005, 09:18 PM   #11
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Here is where the leak made the stink.

Took me a while to find where the coolant could be coming from in the factory manual.
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File Type: jpg exhaust.jpg (100.7 KB, 2393 views)
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Old 07-12-2005, 09:23 PM   #12
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After getting all the hard lines out of the way the pump still took some effort to remove.

A little carefull prying to get it to move and out it came.

Those holes in the case need to be clean and lubed for the new O-rings that go in when ready to install the pump.
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File Type: jpg hard lines removed.jpg (92.2 KB, 2382 views)
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Old 07-12-2005, 09:27 PM   #13
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The guts are out.

The pump drive chain is on the far side. It is driven off the same shaft as the clutch behind the clutch and starter one way drive gear.
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File Type: jpg guts out pump chain drive.jpg (105.7 KB, 2376 views)
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Old 07-12-2005, 09:32 PM   #14
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View from the other side.

You can see where the hard coolant lines come through the case.

Yes Sir, that is the place where oil drips in to your hair and into your ear then when your ear is full it drips off your ear then runs down your neck.

Nothing quite like it.
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File Type: jpg opposite veiw crank case.jpg (113.7 KB, 2372 views)
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Old 07-12-2005, 09:36 PM   #15
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Well here is the pump with it's guts out as well.

The entire pump must be dissasembled to replace any of the seals

The impeller cover can be removed but if any seals need replacing start at the drive sprocket end and have at it.
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File Type: jpg pump assembly.jpg (87.7 KB, 2360 views)
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Old 07-12-2005, 09:39 PM   #16
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Here is the impeller.

The white part is the moving part or half of the mechanical seal.
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File Type: jpg impeller side of mechanical seal.jpg (66.2 KB, 2332 views)
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Old 07-12-2005, 09:41 PM   #17
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Another angle of the same.

Note the polished rings where the oil seal ran.

I did replace this shaft and impeller, about $20.
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File Type: jpg impeller 3.jpg (68.4 KB, 2318 views)
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Old 07-12-2005, 09:42 PM   #18
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One more of the same.
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File Type: jpg impeller 2.jpg (65.5 KB, 2295 views)
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Old 07-12-2005, 09:46 PM   #19
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Here is the other half of the mechanical seal that is itself sealed in to the water pump side of the pump assembly.

Hard to get out.

I used heat and a punch to get it out.

The new one tapped in using a socket over the sealing surface sized to hit the outer ring of the seal.
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File Type: jpg mechanical seal fixed end.jpg (70.9 KB, 2312 views)
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Old 07-12-2005, 10:06 PM   #20
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During assembly, just be sure evrything is clean and in the correct order. There is a washer that must go behind the drive sprocket against the bearing.

Wipe off the bolts and use LockTite where it calls for it. Three of the pan bolts get LT as well.

I used all new O-rings on the water lines, but used the same o-rings on the oil lines.

This thing sits in an oil bath environment.

Put her back together with a new pan gasket.

No leaks. Ya Hooooo

Now on to the clutch.

Where the hell are my clutch discs, MR Cycle????????
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