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Go Back   FZ1OA Message Board > FZ1 & Fazer Owners Association > Tires, Brakes, Suspension & Steering > Gen 1 Tires, Brakes, Suspension & Steering

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Old 04-24-2005, 07:15 AM   #121
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I did the dogbone mod although I ended up using steel. I found 1x24x1/4 inch bar at a scrap yard for 2 bucks. They had 6061 as well, but I didn't feel like foolin with rippin a 2" bar to 1 1/4" and I didn't trust 1". Anyway, I figured the raised rearend accounts for the quick turn in. That and a new rear tire that doesn't have a SE Virginia flat spot on it...yet. The triple clamps are currently set to your spec. They were at 8mm pre mod.

Weather got real cool today, but not too cool to ride. My tires only have about 20 miles on them. How many more do you think I should rack up before I put the suspension to the test?

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Old 04-24-2005, 10:35 AM   #122
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Miles are not the issue with new.

Scuff the side s by doing the weave at ever increasing angles .

Once the shine is off do some corners,increasing speed and lean angle to further scuff them in.

Once scuffed and warmed up they're good to go.
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Old 04-26-2005, 05:58 AM   #123
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This is a great bit of Work to come up with this mod RR.

Just finished the front forks tonight and I cant wait to get out there and try them out in the morning. I had problems getting 3/8" Gal or mild steel pipe nipples. Every store I went to had 1/2" but not the smaller size. It is not a common size here in Australia, so I opted to use aluminium pipe instead. Originally tried 12mm O.D tube but this was smaller than the dampening rod internally, so had to go to the next size up ( 16mmO.D). This was great to work with, I used my Rothenberger pipe cutters to cut them to exactly the length required no extra grinding neccesary.

One thing that came up that I thought I would share. I'm talking metric here, as it is what I work in. Initially you cut 25mm off the spring, but allow forit by adding an extra 25mm to your new spacerr. After initially measuring the spring before and after cutting, bending and grinding, I noticed that you actually shorten the spring by more than 25mm. It was in fact closer to 32mm ( or 1 and 1/4" for all you yankees ). This is because of the step where you flaten the cut end against the next coil and then grind flat, takes out more length.

In theory if you only allow an extra 25mm of length in the spacer then you are actually losing a little bit in ride height, albeit only a little bit (1/4") and I dont see any negatives from this, unless you are already scraping the frame on a regular basis.

The way to get around this is to measure your springs before and after and what ever the difference is, make that the length that you add to the new longer spacer.

Just thought I would make everyone aware of this.

Cheers,

Craig.

Last edited by aussie; 04-26-2005 at 07:23 AM.
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Old 04-26-2005, 09:29 AM   #124
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That is a possability for sure.

However, there is still a small amount of preload on the fork spring that has to be compressed when the cap is screwed in to the upper fork tube. Telling me the fork is fully extended against the upper limit.

Taking a measurement of the over all lenght of the spring before and after to determine the length of the spacer is surely an option.

I guess I never thought it that critical, but might be worth the effort.

I'll look for how it all worked for you after you test ride.
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Old 04-26-2005, 10:38 AM   #125
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Raven- I'm really interested in performing your susp. mod on my blue 02, but just have one question: I am about 165 lbs. and a little over 6 feet tall, and am happy with the current riding position and height of the bike (stock susp.). ..However, I'd love to gain all of the performance benefits that you have described- In your opinion, is the ride height, position, and quality significantly altered by this mod (enough that it would bother a taller rider)? I just don't want to end up hating the bike on longer rides...sore ass, wrists, knees, neck, etc....lol. The bike is primarily used for medium range sportriding (about 200 miles per day).Thanks, Joe.
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Old 04-26-2005, 12:22 PM   #126
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Yikes dude, what kind of a handle is that. Wooooooo

You'll hardly notice any change in riding position of the bike.

The raised rear (1") but lowered forks (1/4") might effect you at a stop, but not when moving.

Neo is about 5'8" or so and about 170 or so in full riding gear and the only thing we changed on his was to back off the rear spring one more notch to 7 down from full preload.

You will actually get a smoother ride from both ends.

Ya I know that sounds nuts,but the whole thing acts totally different from stock. I don't think doing just one end, front or rear, would be near the same either. They seem to work together.

I'm working at putting together a kit with everything except the fork oil,including precut springs,spacers,fill gauge.

Done on an exchange basis. Prepay for the kit and I'll send the kit, you send back the old springs so I can prep them for the next guy.

What I need is a few sets of the stock springs from the guys that went for the high buck front kits or sent in their forks to be done.

I know the stockers are not that much. I could buy a couple sets of them to get started.

I'm just kind of testing the interest in it. Also waiting to see what others have top say as how it works.

Nothing better than a satisfied rider after they've finished a modification to their bike and they're happy with how it all worked out.
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Old 04-26-2005, 12:28 PM   #127
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I just realized I forgot to post my ride report. Let me start off by saying I'm extremely pleased. I do feel the undulations of the road more, but without all the shock and upset...I imagine that's because of the springs being stiffer, plus I think I need to play with the comp/rebound settings. I'm not exactly the greatest at that. The jarring over bumps and holes in the road is gone and the bike is firmly planted in the corners. My hat's off to Glenn. Thank you sir for your innovation, and more so for sharing it.

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Old 04-27-2005, 05:51 AM   #128
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My Ride report:

I performed the front fork mod last night and had the chance to do 200klm on the bike today. FYI I had already raised the forks through the triple clamps 10mm, as well as raising the rear 28mm ,18 months ago by using a team Mettisse tail riser. So I already had a bike that would turn in considerably better than the stock Fizzy.

I'm very happy with the improvements that this mod provides. This is a great bang for your buck mod, with a reasonable amount of increase in performance over the stock forks for next to no outlay. The shortening of the springs has given the bike a more planted feel everywhere and the lighter fork oil seems to have improved the dampening too.

I have the itch to try a different weight fork oil now that I have the bug, just to see if it makes much more of a difference to the dampening characteristics of the bike. I find the 5wt fork oil a great improvement with many of the little road undulations and bumps greatly reduced, but I am now curious to see if the 2.5 will be even better!!


Once again RR, great mod and you are a legend for coming up with it.
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Old 04-27-2005, 08:43 AM   #129
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I was thinking of getting a firmer rear spring (185lb rider w/o gear).

Would this mod (forks and dogbones) eliminate the need for a new rear spring?
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Old 04-27-2005, 09:50 AM   #130
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I think you would find this just fine.

I am 208 lbs without gear and I run my rear preload at 5 clicks back from full.

My guess is you would find 5 to 6 back would do the trick and leave plenty of preload available for two up riding or further adjustment if needed.

For the cost of making a set of the dog bone and the 15 minutes to install them, it is surely worth a try.

Though,I would advise doing both ends together just to even out the suspension. The front and the rear need to work together for the bike to really handle at it's best.
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Old 04-27-2005, 11:02 AM   #131
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Quote:
Originally posted by RavenRider
My guess is you would find 5 to 6 back would do the trick and leave plenty of preload available for two up riding or further adjustment if needed.
Good enough. I'll give it a try.
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Old 04-28-2005, 12:13 AM   #132
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aussie

If you deside to try the 2.5 wt oil please post up your finding or better yet pm me so I can make changes to the tech tips if it works well.

I want to try it my self but have been so busy doing these for the local guys and other FZ1OA members I haven't had the time to pull mine down to try it.

Thanks for posting your results.
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Old 04-28-2005, 03:44 AM   #133
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Quote:
Originally posted by RavenRider
aussie
If you deside to try the 2.5 wt oil please post up your finding or better yet pm me so I can make changes to the tech tips if it works well.
I want to try it my self but have been so busy doing these for the local guys and other FZ1OA members I haven't had the time to pull mine down to try it.
Thanks for posting your results.
No worries. I think I will leave it as is for now as I am not unhappy with it. Just curious to what sort of difference the lighter oil will make! By the time I get around to actually doing it you will already have beaten me to it!
If I do get around to it before anyone else I will definitely let you know my impressions.
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Old 04-28-2005, 06:52 AM   #134
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I want to try the 2.5W. But I'm reading that there is no 2.5W SAE designation.

Absent this designation you have to look at the viscosity.

Apparently, 90 viscosity is the lower limit or minimum for 5W. Spectro Ultra Light, for example, has a viscosity of 60, so that would be lighter than a typical 5W.

I got this from technical support on the Spectro Oils website.

Seems more confusing than it should be.

Note: the viscosity of 90 is in Saybolt Universal Seconds (S.U.S.) @ 40C (100F)

I do wonder how the lighter oil would affect the effective fill level.

Right now I'm leaning toward Golden Spectro Very Light (85/150 viscosity) because they state it contains "zero stiction" additives. I don't see that for the Ultra Light. Maybe I'll ask their tech support. It also seems to be a good middle viscosity between the manufacturers fork oil and the extremely light oils intended for shocks.
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Old 04-28-2005, 07:14 AM   #135
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I got these comparison numbers for suspension fluids from the Traxxion forum:

Brand cSt @ 40C (centiStrokes) cSt @ 100C (centiStrokes) Viscosity Index (VI)

Red Line (Like Water!) 5.5 2.3 344
Red Line (Extra Light) 9.8 4 402
Spectro SPL Ultra Light 10 4.4 385
Bel-Ray HVI (3wt) 13 4.1 300
Maxima Racing Shock Oil (3wt) 14 5.2 378
Silkolene Pro RSF (2.5wt) 14 5.8 464
Spectro (85/150) 14 3.4 150 - lighter than manufacturer but still made for forks
Racetech (Light US1) 14.2 4.2 ???
Honda (5wt) 15 4.5 140
Yamaha Fork Oil (01) 15 4.5 150
Maxima Fork Oil (5wt) 16 3.5 150
Maxima Racing Fork Oil (5wt) 16 3.5 150
Motul Fork Oil (Very Light) 16 3.5 100
Ohlins (5wt) 16.5 ???
Kayaba (1) 17 4.1 ???
Showa (SS7) 17 4.1 ???
Red Line (Light) 18.4 7.1 407
Ohlins (R&T 43) 19 ???
Bel-Ray Fork Oil (5wt) 20 6.2 280
Motul Fork Oil (Light) 20 6 260
Bel-Ray HVI (5wt) 21 6.7 300
Maxima Racing Shock Oil (7wt) 21 7.3 349
Spectro Shock & Fork 400 21 8.9 400
Ohlins (10wt) 22 ???
Silkolene Fork Oil (5wt) 22 4.4 106
Spectro Fork Oil (5wt) 22 4.4 119
Spectro (125/150) 26 3.4 150
Spectro SPL (Very Light) 26 10 400
Maxima Racing Fork Oil (7wt) 27 3.5 151
Silkolene Pro RSF (5wt) 27 9.5 372
Maxima Racing Shock Oil (10wt) 29 9.4 334
Red Line (Medium) 30.4 10.8 369
Ohlins (15wt) 31.7 ???
Maxima Fork Oil (10wt) 32 6.3 151
Maxima Racing Fork Oil (10wt) 32 6.3 151
Spectro Fork Oil (10wt) 33 7.2 111
Silkolene Fork Oil (10wt) 35 7 169
Silkolene Pro RSF (7.5wt) 37 12 322
Maxima Fork Oil (15wt) 46 8.5 154
Maxima Racing Fork Oil (15wt) 46 8.5 154
Spectro Fork Oil (15wt) 46 7.2 119
Silkolene Pro RSF (10wt) 47 14 303
Red Line (Heavy) 66.8 16 256
Showa (SS8)


From this chart it looks as if Red Line and Spectro are the only fluids significantly lighter than the manufacturers oil. The one Bel Ray is a little lighter.

Note: the viscosity index (VI) is the oils' resistance to fade. The higher the better. But this number is not as critical for forks as for shocks, which operate at higher temps.
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Old 04-28-2005, 08:03 AM   #136
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Alley Oop

Wow,great info there.

I am familiar with the viscosity meter they referance there.

Great list and a bit of a surprise where some oils fall in the order listed and how they compare to another oil.

I printed off the list for the tackle box and future fork jobs.

Thanks again man,way cool info to have on hand.
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Old 04-28-2005, 08:07 AM   #137
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Quote:
Originally posted by RavenRider
Thanks again man,way cool info to have on hand.
Glad to help. Yeah, those numbers surprised me, too!
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Old 04-28-2005, 12:07 PM   #138
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Another slightly different but useful oil comparison chart from Spectro:
Attached Images
File Type: gif oilchart.gif (19.4 KB, 642 views)
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Old 04-28-2005, 12:37 PM   #139
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Maxima Oil Technical Data
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Old 04-28-2005, 12:43 PM   #140
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Alley Oop,

Yikes,holy under cover fork oil guru.

Man that is some interesting stuff.

The original yamaha oil should perform.

I can't figure why the 5wt maxima oil seems to work so much better than the stock stuff.

The shortened spring and the added oil must do the lions share of the change in my front mod.

I think I'll be doing some mucking around with this,may be able to make it even better than it is. Though I hate to wind up making it worse.

Ah the cost of research.

Thanks again for the excellent info.
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