HyperPro Front&Rear Springs Review (With Pictures)

01-18-2003, 05:27 PM

<html><body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"><table width="725" border="1" cellpadding="2" height="2800"><tr><td align="left" valign="top" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">Hyperpro Suspension Upgrade Review 

By: Terry Glatz (FZsarasota)

My upgrading philosophy on any vehicle has always been suspension first then the engine. There's no point of "more power" if you can't get it to ground and control it. After purchasing my 03 FZ1 I felt
there was room for improvement, so, I set off to improve my FZ's suspension. After researching all of my options regarding spring upgrades I decided to ask my wife for a set front and rear springs from Hyperpro for Xmas. Please let me explain why I went this direction. I wanted to try something different and Hypers "constant rising rate" spring, is just that, different.
<hr width="100%">The HyperPro Spring Design 

01-18-2003, 05:59 PM

Well done Terry

thanks!

01-18-2003, 07:15 PM

Thank you for the compliment steve...

-Terry

01-18-2003, 08:06 PM

Nice review, Terry. Will you be coming to Deals Gap in the Spring? The reason I ask is that I am curious. Your review seems to make the case that just changing the springs and oil on the suspension will clear up all of the problems with the FZ1 stock set up. I always felt that when it came to suspension one really needed to have the valves dealt with in both shocks as well as the springs and oil to get the optimum set up. If you are at the Gap in the Spring we can swap bikes and make some comparisons. I have the Penske rear shock with the Taxxion Dynamics reworked fronts that include the valves being reworked. I would like to feel the difference. My bike with it's current set up makes me grin and giggle all the way through the twisties.

A write up of the comparison would be tops! BTW, your write up was very nice.

01-18-2003, 10:08 PM

Yea, I'll try and make the meet, it will depend on my arm. I would love to try out your setup (sounds real sweet).

-Terry

01-19-2003, 06:53 AM

Here's the link to the tread about the Rally in May, Terry.

<a href="http://pub29.ezboard.com/ffz1ownersassociationfrm9.showMessage?topicID=301. topic" target="top">Deals Gap Rally Thread</a>

There is information in there to let you know where Deals Gap is located. I am in Alpharetta, Ga which is only about 45 minutes from T.W.O. (which would be some kick a$$ twisties to test the two machines). If the Rally is no good for you or you want to break the trip up a little to take it easy on your arm, we can set up anytime and I will put you up here without a problem (as long as you don't mind a bunch of bedlam with three and sometimes four kids running around :lol: ). I am off for two weeks that include the Rally weekend but am also flexible before that since my schedule is to work a twenty four hour shift and then I'm off for forty eight hours. E-mail me and we can set something up!

01-19-2003, 06:53 AM

Terry,

Excellent write up. That seems like it is a pretty good alternative to the re-valve. Especially money wise.

It's always nice to have another option.

Thanks,
Pat

01-19-2003, 07:50 AM

Thank you for the compliment Pogden, yea, it's an awesome setup for the money.

-Terry

[Have a safe and trouble free ride]

01-19-2003, 10:46 AM

Terry,

Sometimes ezboard is a misnomer :lol:

01-19-2003, 07:17 PM

Hello FZ Sarasota,

Another extremely detailed product review of a Hyperpro Product...

Your notes and riding impressions are great. I have to tell you that you could expect even greater results from straight rate springs. No suspension tuner in the US recommends progressively wound springs for any application.

As far as the Hyperpro tech article goes at the beginning of your story, I cannot say I have seen a tech article more fraught with nonsense and half-truths as that ever.

They have a diagram that shows their spring being stiffer initially than any other style of spring. How then, do they and you claim they are soft and plush initially, when compared to a straight rate spring?

What most people are not aware of is that a straight rate spring installed in a fork still acts progressively. This is due to the air spring in the fork (the column of air on top of the oil). The "combined" effect is to have a progressive spring rate. Having progressive springs installed actually makes this effect exaggerated and results in harshness in the bottom of the stroke, when the bike is ridden by a fast rider.

That stuff about a spring being modeled for a specific bike is just the biggest bunch of marketing bullcrap I have ever read in my life. Don't be fooled by that. No spring on Earth knows what bike it is installed in. Forks have no leverage multiplication system, and if you put a set of springs in a 450 pound bike with a straight compression damping unit with no linkage system, I don't care what the label on the gas tank is, they will act the same.
(for engineering purists, there is a SLIGHT effect based on the angle of the steering head...).

The denouncing of Progressive springs as being substandard to theirs is more marketing BS as well.

Here is the tech info to request...

At what rate is the spring progressive?
How much spring pressure is there at
1" intervals through 6 inches (this would include preload)?

Stiffer springs will feel better over stock no matter who makes them.

Take note that progressively wound springs inherently weigh more than linear springs. 1/2 of a spring is unsprung mass. If you can reduce unsprung weight, your suspension will work better. Adding weight, well, you see how that will go.

If anyone wants to send us some of those springs, we will test them with a digital spring rate tester and tell you what it is you have bought, exactly.

Between this and the Active Damper, I think we have a Hyper marketing company here, not a suspension innovator.

BTW, make sure there is no confusion between Hyperpro, who is new to the US, and Hyperco, who makes the finest coil springs I know of. Hypercos makes springs that are OEM on Penske Shocks, and have been used to win every single Indy 500 since the coil spring car was introduced there 38 years ago. Most NASCAR teams use Hypercoils as well. They don't make infinitely progressive springs, either. They make straight rate springs.

You sure put a lot of work into that article, though...

01-20-2003, 10:00 AM

Max, your statements in many of your posts in this thread against Hyperpro are false. You have claimed that no tuner would recommend them and have implied that no one should use them (on the track or street). You have even gone so low as to bashed the Hyperpro product, and me.

Please let me quote you....

--------------------------
Max Wrote: "Between this and the Active Damper, I think we have a Hyper marketing company here, not a suspension innovator".
--------------------------
Max Wrote: "You will not find anyone who recommends a Progressive spring, never mind another brand."
--------------------------
Max Wrote: " I could easily make some bogus name up, jump on here and make a highly detailed post about how wonderful my parts are, or how I installed someone else's parts and crashed my bike."
--------------------------
Max Wrote: "I cannot say I have seen a tech article more fraught with nonsense and half-truths as that ever."
--------------------------
Max Wrote: "No suspension tuner in the US recommends progressively wound springs for any application."
--------------------------
Max Wrote: "your reviews look more like you are employed by Hyperpro than a consumer of their products."
--------------------------

Oh well, I have decided to post a list of Race teams that have used or are using hyper equip machines and a few quotes on the bottom from "racers" like Freddy Spencer who talk about their products. Since you "claim" to use facts, I can only post the facts that other race teams do use them. Can all these people be wrong in choosing HyperPro suspension products???? Anyway, please read on.

Note: Ezboard sometimes can reformat a text layout. If you see an error in team names, racers, or standings, please let me know an I will correct it as fast as I can, Thanks....

==================
Race Team Lists
==================
==================
World Championship
==================

2000
World championship 600 supersport Jörg Teuchert 1st
World championship 600 supersport Christian Kellner 4th

2001
World championship 600 supersport Jörg Teuchert 3th
World championship 600 supersport Christian Kellner 14th

2002
World championship 600 supersport Christian Kellner 6st
World championship 600 supersport Jörg Teuchert 8th

========
PORTUGAL
========
Team Manager: Nuno Leitão
Technicans: Pedro Lourenço, Bernardo e Sá, Pedro Felicidade e Manuel Logístics: Tomás Leitão, Joaquim de Oliveira

1996 - Portuguese Championship Sport Prodution 750;
1997 - Portuguese Championship Sport Prodution 750 and Macau GP;
1998 - Portuguese and Spanish Championships SuperSport 600;
1999 - Portuguese and Spanish Champioships SuperSport 600 and Macau GP;

2000 - Vice Champion of Portugal SuperSport 600, Spainish Championship Supersport 600, 3th European Race Supersport championship in Portugal.

2001 - Spanish Championship SuperSport 600, Lap Record Estoril SuperSport 600.

2002 - Vice Champion Spainish Championship Formula Extreme, 3th Portuguese Championship StockSport 1000,
Lap Record StockSport Estoril and Braga, 2th Estoril Endurance. Pole Position Jarama Spainish Championship Formula Extreme.

=======
Hungary
=======

2002:
400cc category Attila Braun-4th
Supermoto 1st
MX Category 1st
Superstock enduro 1st

======
Suisse
======

2001:
laprecord Funny bike class distance: ¼ mile: time: 6.98 (s) topspeed: 319,8 km/h

======
France
======

2002
Superproduction Honda CBR 954 Nicolas Prely 1st
Team Endurance 25 Gerald Muteau 1st
Yann Lussiana

2001 :
Team Motorep (Endurance) Gerald Muteau 1st
Bruno Bonhuil

=====
Italy
=====

1997 European SS600 Ducati 748 Angelo Conti 1st
2002 Superstock Ducati 998S Alex Valia 1st

=====
Spain
=====

2002
JAVIER DIAZ PAN. EXTREME 10th
ISRAEL SANCHEZ EXTREME 4th
VICTOR M. CARRASCO EXTREME 2nd
IDALIO GAVIRA EXTREME 3rd
JOSEP SARDA EXTREME 1st

=======
Belgium
=======

2002:
Koen Vleugels Superstock European Championship 5th
R6 cup 1st

=====
Japan
=====

1999 Over Racing 8 hours Suzuka endurance race 1st

======
U.S.A.
======

2000 Aprillia Cup Aaron Clark 1st

=====
Korea
=====

2002: Superbike Champion GSX-R750 Jung soo Moon 1st

=====
Italy
=====

1997 European SS600 Ducati 748 Angelo Conti 1st
2002 Superstock Ducati 998S Alex Valia 1st

=====
Korea
=====

2002: Superbike Champion GSX-R750 Jung soo Moon 1st

======
Poland
======

2002:
Supersport 600 2nd and 3rd
Superbike 2nd
Superstock 3rd
PZM Cup to 600 5th
PZM Cup up 600 2nd and 3rd
Title of best racing team of the season

=======
Holland
=======

2001 R6 cup Robert de Vries 1st
2002 R6 cup Robert de Vries 1st

=======
Germany
=======
----------------------
Team / Fahrer / Klasse
----------------------

1. Bange, Markus / Markus Bange / ADAC Junior-Cup
2. Dierks Motorradtechnik / Christian Schneider / IDM Superstock
3. Docshop Racing / Jennifer Kaulbach / ADAC Junior-Team
4. Docshop Racing / Marcus Zimmermann / ADAC Junior-Team
5. Docshop Racing / Martin Lenhof / IDM 125 ccm
6. Docshop Racing / Matthias Neukirchen / IDM 250 ccm
7. Docshop Racing / Phillip Hafeneger / IDM 250 ccm
8. Docshop Racing / Matthias Neukirchen / IDM Supersport 600
9. Docshop Racing / Mike Baldinger / IDM Supersport 600
10. Eble, Alexandra / Alexandra Eble / IDM 125 ccm
11. Fritz, Norbert / Norbert Fritz / IDM Superstock
12. Galinski, Michael / Michael Galinski / IDM Supersport 600
13. Geiger / Michael Geiger / X-treme, Stocksport
14. Freudenberg Racing /Dirk Heidolf / IDM 250 ccm
15. Zweirad Krause / Jürgen Müller / Stocksport, Serie
16. K + W Racing / Oliver Wagenführ / Langstrecke, Serie
17. K + W Racing / Kai Löke / Langstrecke, Serie
18. K + W Racing /Christian Pazer / Langstrecke, Serie
19. Motobox Racing Kremer / Peter Rink / Langstrecke
20. Motobox Racing Kremer / Martin Scherrer / Langstrecke
21. Thiele / Klaus Thiele / Ninja Cup
22. Wehran, Ronny / Ronny Wehran / Superstock 600
23. Steinhausen Racing / Jürgen Oelschläger / DM Supersport 600
24. Steinhausen Racing / Michael Witzeneder/ IDM Supersport 600
25. Steinhausen Racing / Benny Jerzenbeck / IDM Superstock
26. RSC-Team-Heinrich / Robert Ertl jr./ IDM 125 ccm
27. Motorsporttechnik / Thomas Zuckschwerdt / IDM Superstock
28. Bender Motorradsport / Stefan Scheschowitsch / IDM Supersport 600
29. Bender Motorradsport / Alexander Jolig / IDM Superstock
30. Elmar Geulen / Elmar Geulen / X-treme
31. Klaus Schulz / Klaus Schulz / IDM Superstock
32. Zweirad Teuchert / Günter Knobloch / EM Superstock
33. Harald Kitsch / Harald Kitsch / IDM Superstock
34. Rinolfi / Davide Bulega / Supersport 600
35. ALG Racing / Peter Preussler / IDM Superstock
36. Martensen / Jan Martensen / IDM Superstock
37. Königsbeck / Balaschov / Eisspeedway
38. Karthin Rennsport / Stefan Nebel / IDM Supersport 600
39. Maik Stief / Maik Stief / IDM Supersport 600
40. Steinmetz / Björn Steinmetz / IDM Supersport 600
41. Volker Volk / Volker Volk / Seriensport Kl. 8
42. Wellbrock & Co. / Jochen Schmid / Superbike
43. Motorsport S.Schmidt / Benjamin Nabert / IDM Superstock
44. Motorsport S.Schmidt / Markus Wegscheider / EM Superstock
45. Bridgestone Deutschland / Tim Röthig / Langstrecke
46. Motorrad Center / Patrick Hovenga / IDM Supersport 600
47. Casaer / Steven Casaer / Supersport 600
48. Daemen / Werner Daemen / WM Supersport
49. Shell-Advance / Rico Penzkofer / IDM Supersport 600
50. Racing Team Rath /Martin Rath / IDM Supersport 600
51. Emonts / Peter Sluka / IDM Supersport 600
52. Stop & Go Streuli / Ruedi Portmann / Supersport 600
================================================== ======
================================================== ======
================================================== ======

I gathered from the web a few quotes talking about Hyperpro related products.

=======================
Freddie Spencer Quotes:
=======================

"In testing we concluded Hyperpro is the best suspension package. The front fork springs and rear shock gave improved stability without being too rigid. The shock offered good feel without the usual harshness at slow speeds. The looks and specifications of the steering dampers are designed in a way you cannot refuse any longer: A definite improvement over the stock suspension."
-----

FREDDIE SPENCER's RIDING SCHOOL with HYPERPRO suspension.

"At the school we only use the best quality products and Hyperpro fits the bill!. Hyperpro Suspension Kits and Steering Dampers are developed on the track to benefit the every day rider. Before using the products at the school, I personally tested them to make sure they lived up to the standards demanded at the school."

- Freddie Spencer - 3 Time World Champion

==========================================
Chuck Graves of Yamaha Motorsports Quotes:
==========================================

Chuck Graves of Yamaha Motorsports declared the following: "Hyperpro steering dampers give me better control. They have a light low speed settings that keeps my arms from pumping up, but come strong at the first sign of head shake."

--------

Now let's not forget the thousands of very satisfied customers (including myself now) that use Hyperpro Products. My point is Max, you have made statements that are false and I hope the information above shows the truth of your "REAL" intentions for responding and bashing Hyperpro products (that is, to sell your own goods).

Anyway, take care and be well Max.

-Terry

[Have a safe and trouble free ride]

01-20-2003, 06:10 PM

Very nice job writing that review.

You and Pat must be related, eh?

01-20-2003, 07:08 PM

The part I referred to as inaccurate was not anything written by you. It was the part you copied from whatever marketing materials Hyperpro supplied you, or rather you found on their sites.

The racers you quoted... Ever heard of any of them?
You joke about me pointing out that the top racing body in the US (NASCAR) uses a different brand of spring than you recommend here because you don't own a stock car, and yet you are gleefully promoting the Suisse Funnybike drag racing champion? Have you ever entered your bike in a top fuel drag race? Seriously.

A blanket statement is possible for the use of Progressively wound springs. Contact the following companies..
Traxxion Dynamics
Race Tech
Lindemann Engineering
GMD Computrak

That's it for nationally known companies. There are some small regional companies you can ask as well.

Circuit One
GP Suspension
Aftershocks
Cycle Tech
or
California Suspension Works

You will not find anyone who recommends a Progressive spring, never mind another brand.

What racetrack where you at when you rode your bike to its limits? The harshness tuners speak of from progressive springs shows up on a racetrack or on twisty roads when the bike is ridden aggresively.
Simply "opening the bike up" will not exhibit the symptoms I am describing.

You offer such detailed technical information, yet you don't want to answer technical questions. I don't understand that.

ie, the spring chart you published.

It shows three springs, all of which start with some different spring pressure on the X axis. What the heck does that mean? Doesn't any spring, of any rate, of any construction, start with "ZERO" pressure when it is laying on a table? Note all of the happy buzzwords and arrows pointing to the Hyperpro Spring, and all of the bad, negative words pointing to the other types of springs. Note also that there is no units assigned to this bogus marketing chart.

You have accused me of product bashing, but your reviews look more like you are employed by Hyperpro than a consumer of their products.

The owners of this list have chastised me for offering a counterpoint that is not happy and in agreement with your view. They don't want disagreement amongst vendors on this list. But if you can publish such detailed information I should be able to point out where the marketing stops and the reality starts.

If the owners of FZ1 motorcycles want to read this kind of hype and just believe it to be fact without any counterpoint, then why even have an owner's list?

Note too, that I post under my real name, and make no qualms about my opinions. I could easily make some bogus name up, jump on here and make a highly detailed post about how wonderful my parts are, or how I installed someone else's parts and crashed my bike.

If you only want complete agreement on this list, let me know, and I won't post here any longer.

01-20-2003, 08:32 PM

Yea, I have heard of a few of the teams listed (whats your point???)

You are asking "technical" questions that you will have to direct to HyperPro. Call them and ask....

Have a nice Day Max

-Terry

01-20-2003, 10:36 PM

Max and Terry...I really wouldn't sweat all of this. This can easily be settled when Terry and I get together on this and swap bikes and write up our impressions (uhh, Terry, maybe you can do the layout...that looked real good). I'm pretty sure that my set up will be superior but, then again, it is about four times the cash outlay. I would be interested to see how far the gap between the two set ups REALLY is. I have been raving about this suspension modification since I got this machine. Having racked up about 4500 miles on the stockers on my 2001, I REALLY FEEL the difference. As I ride more in different situations, over different pavement, through different twisties, this set up inspires more and more confidence...it is SURE FOOTED. Here are the things I have noticed so far:

1) Over road imperfections the suspension just plain soaks the bumps up...even at a good lean. There is a moderately tight right hander on my favorite "close to the house" twisty road. It is completely humped by the roots of nearby trees. With the stock set up, I would have to shave off quite a bit of speed coming into the turn because the bike would get so upset by these roots that my line would be lost. With the new set up, the bike bumps over them, but transmits little to me...I can hold my line no problem.

2) When I come into a corner I can get on the brakes later and power out sooner because I can establish a better lean angle with this set up than the stockers.

3) When I do power out, the bike lays ALL of the power straight to the road...the bike never shudders under acceleration. This is felt even more when powering out of the corners at a good lean angle. With the stock set up, the bike would seem to wobble more as it was returning to the upright postion under acceleration. With the Traxxion set up...no more.

4) Going through the twisty road and swapping from a good left lean over to a good right lean or vice versa is now much less effort. Before, the bike would shimmy and felt heavier. Now it "feels" lighter because the effort to go from one side to another is much less.

5) Riding on the Super Slab is much more enjoyable as well. This is due to the same thing that was mentioned earlier about the road imperfections being consumed without transmitting so much back up to the rider. The ride is not harsh at all as some may suspect switching to tighter suspension would be.

6) Increased front end feel in the curves. The front end isn't spending as much time trying to jerk the bars from my hands when the front wheel encounters broken pavement and the result is increased front end feel.

Now, I am probably slower than most riders...I am just out having a good time...but I want to make it back home. I have never really ridden with the super fast crowd so I don't know what that is really like (I guess I will find out when at the Rally I have to try to keep up with all of the crazy folks around here). This is just my take on the fine suspension offered by Max and his staff. I am quite pleased and, of course, would recommend them to anyone. I must also say that I recommend upgrading your suspension on the Fizzy as the FIRST place to put your mod money. This bike makes gobs of stock power...putting that power to road properly is money well spent in my book and it is EXACTLY what I wanted for my 2001 when I had it. I could have laid down the jack for many other things...but I was putting it all off until I could afford suspension. Luckily for me...this '02 came with this kick a$$ set up and I couldn't be more pleased with the results.

Now, Terry, lets get that ride up here ASAP and see how these things PURR. I want to try out Ivan's needles as well.

01-21-2003, 07:47 AM

Fast, there is no doubt that your setup rocks, I believe ya. I'm glad that you are getting all the performance you can out of the FZ1 (you gotta love this bike).

-Terry
[Have a safe and trouble free ride]

01-21-2003, 07:53 AM

Terry,

Nice arm!

Speaking only for myself I can say your intentions have been crystal clear.

Thanks for the effort you put into the write up on both products. It's that kind of effort that has made this place such a great resource for our bike. I really appreciate it.

Ride safe,

Steve

01-21-2003, 10:15 AM

Terry, I must say I'm with you as far as believing the truth is in the ride. We all gain experience from whatever we do, but it's important not to get narrow minded, getting biased as far as what is feasible or works well. I may be biased since I have a combi kit of Hyperpro springs sitting at home waiting to be installed. Thank you for the install tips and an excellent, detailed review, by the way. I hope your arm is improving.

Paul

01-21-2003, 11:30 AM

OUCH, Terry!

Don't get me wrong...I'm with Dog on this one...I believe your intentions have been clear as well. I know that we are comparing apples to oranges and that is what I stated in my post. In case I was not clear, I wasn't trying to defend "my set up" over "yours". I am truely CURIOUS as to how much difference will be apparent between the two. That is all. I also don't like to see two people on this board that I like go at it. I think each is taking the other the wrong way. I think Max is SO passionate about his expertise that when he just wants to educate people on suspension it comes off a little harsh. I seem to do the same thing when I talk politics...especially on this board.:lol: Things just get taken differently on message boards. I also think the same is happening the other way and Max is not taking what you did here at face value. That being, that you are an FZ1 owner/operator that had a pleasant experience with a product and wanted us to know about it. That's not to say that you are unaware that other options exist and that some of them may be better. But, like you and I BOTH have been saying the whole time...when you weigh MONEY and IMPROVEMENT...sounds like you have a winner

Max, from what you have posted, the progressive wound spring is not recommended (I have actually heard the same from Curtis and some other suspension savvy riders I know as well). Would doing a similar cost effective upgrade on the Fizzy be recommended with the straight weight springs? I know that with your passion you like to go all the way...and BELIEVE ME...most of the owners here would like to as well. However, the budget (and the S/O) doesn't always allow for this much of a commitment on a bike for everyone. Would you have a recommendation in this arena?

01-21-2003, 12:19 PM

I don't mean to through a wrench into the works here, but has any one tried Race Tech products (www.racetech.com)?

Just asking as a 'Bandit' friend of mine just ordered some springs from them. I went through their valving search and got their custom valving suggestions (a lot of 'call', '?' marks and also a recommended fork spring rate of 0.000 Kg/mm!?!). Not that it means much to me right now as I have yet to pick up my Fizzy. I'm dreaming of possible to-do lists for next winter.

I'm not trying to get into an argument just looking for opinions to keep my gray matter from freezing. :|

01-18-2003, 05:27 PM	#1
FZSarasota Guest Posts: n/a	HyperPro Front&Rear Springs Review (With Pictures) <html><body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"><table width="725" border="1" cellpadding="2" height="2800"><tr><td align="left" valign="top" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><font face="Arial"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="3">Hyperpro Suspension Upgrade Review </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="3"> By: Terry Glatz (FZsarasota) My upgrading philosophy on any vehicle has always been suspension first then the engine. There's no point of "more power" if you can't get it to ground and control it. After purchasing my 03 FZ1 I felt there was room for improvement, so, I set off to improve my FZ's suspension. After researching all of my options regarding spring upgrades I decided to ask my wife for a set front and rear springs from Hyperpro for Xmas. Please let me explain why I went this direction. I wanted to try something different and Hypers "constant rising rate" spring, is just that, different. </font></font><hr width="100%"><font face="Arial"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size="3">The HyperPro Spring Design </font></font></font>

01-18-2003, 05:59 PM	#2
wArDoG Guest Posts: n/a	Re: HyperPro Front&Rear Springs Review (With Pictures) Well done Terry thanks!

01-18-2003, 07:15 PM	#3
FZSarasota Guest Posts: n/a	Re: HyperPro Front&Rear Springs Review (With Pictures) Thank you for the compliment steve... -Terry

01-18-2003, 08:06 PM	#4
fastnfurious7 Guest Posts: n/a	Re: HyperPro Front&Rear Springs Review (With Pictures) Nice review, Terry. Will you be coming to Deals Gap in the Spring? The reason I ask is that I am curious. Your review seems to make the case that just changing the springs and oil on the suspension will clear up all of the problems with the FZ1 stock set up. I always felt that when it came to suspension one really needed to have the valves dealt with in both shocks as well as the springs and oil to get the optimum set up. If you are at the Gap in the Spring we can swap bikes and make some comparisons. I have the Penske rear shock with the Taxxion Dynamics reworked fronts that include the valves being reworked. I would like to feel the difference. My bike with it's current set up makes me grin and giggle all the way through the twisties. A write up of the comparison would be tops! BTW, your write up was very nice.

01-18-2003, 10:08 PM	#5
FZSarasota Guest Posts: n/a	Re: HyperPro Front&Rear Springs Review (With Pictures) Yea, I'll try and make the meet, it will depend on my arm. I would love to try out your setup (sounds real sweet). -Terry

01-19-2003, 06:53 AM	#6
fastnfurious7 Guest Posts: n/a	Re: HyperPro Front&Rear Springs Review (With Pictures) Here's the link to the tread about the Rally in May, Terry. <a href="http://pub29.ezboard.com/ffz1ownersassociationfrm9.showMessage?topicID=301. topic" target="top">Deals Gap Rally Thread</a> There is information in there to let you know where Deals Gap is located. I am in Alpharetta, Ga which is only about 45 minutes from T.W.O. (which would be some kick a$$ twisties to test the two machines). If the Rally is no good for you or you want to break the trip up a little to take it easy on your arm, we can set up anytime and I will put you up here without a problem (as long as you don't mind a bunch of bedlam with three and sometimes four kids running around :lol: ). I am off for two weeks that include the Rally weekend but am also flexible before that since my schedule is to work a twenty four hour shift and then I'm off for forty eight hours. E-mail me and we can set something up!

01-19-2003, 06:53 AM	#7
pogden Guest Posts: n/a	re Terry, Excellent write up. That seems like it is a pretty good alternative to the re-valve. Especially money wise. It's always nice to have another option. Thanks, Pat

01-19-2003, 07:50 AM	#8
FZSarasota Guest Posts: n/a	Re: re Thank you for the compliment Pogden, yea, it's an awesome setup for the money. -Terry [Have a safe and trouble free ride]

01-19-2003, 10:46 AM	#9
wArDoG Guest Posts: n/a	Re: re Terry, Sometimes ezboard is a misnomer :lol:

01-19-2003, 07:17 PM	#10
Max McAllister Guest Posts: n/a	Hyperpro Springs Hello FZ Sarasota, Another extremely detailed product review of a Hyperpro Product... Your notes and riding impressions are great. I have to tell you that you could expect even greater results from straight rate springs. No suspension tuner in the US recommends progressively wound springs for any application. As far as the Hyperpro tech article goes at the beginning of your story, I cannot say I have seen a tech article more fraught with nonsense and half-truths as that ever. They have a diagram that shows their spring being stiffer initially than any other style of spring. How then, do they and you claim they are soft and plush initially, when compared to a straight rate spring? What most people are not aware of is that a straight rate spring installed in a fork still acts progressively. This is due to the air spring in the fork (the column of air on top of the oil). The "combined" effect is to have a progressive spring rate. Having progressive springs installed actually makes this effect exaggerated and results in harshness in the bottom of the stroke, when the bike is ridden by a fast rider. That stuff about a spring being modeled for a specific bike is just the biggest bunch of marketing bullcrap I have ever read in my life. Don't be fooled by that. No spring on Earth knows what bike it is installed in. Forks have no leverage multiplication system, and if you put a set of springs in a 450 pound bike with a straight compression damping unit with no linkage system, I don't care what the label on the gas tank is, they will act the same. (for engineering purists, there is a SLIGHT effect based on the angle of the steering head...). The denouncing of Progressive springs as being substandard to theirs is more marketing BS as well. Here is the tech info to request... At what rate is the spring progressive? How much spring pressure is there at 1" intervals through 6 inches (this would include preload)? Stiffer springs will feel better over stock no matter who makes them. Take note that progressively wound springs inherently weigh more than linear springs. 1/2 of a spring is unsprung mass. If you can reduce unsprung weight, your suspension will work better. Adding weight, well, you see how that will go. If anyone wants to send us some of those springs, we will test them with a digital spring rate tester and tell you what it is you have bought, exactly. Between this and the Active Damper, I think we have a Hyper marketing company here, not a suspension innovator. BTW, make sure there is no confusion between Hyperpro, who is new to the US, and Hyperco, who makes the finest coil springs I know of. Hypercos makes springs that are OEM on Penske Shocks, and have been used to win every single Indy 500 since the coil spring car was introduced there 38 years ago. Most NASCAR teams use Hypercoils as well. They don't make infinitely progressive springs, either. They make straight rate springs. You sure put a lot of work into that article, though...

01-20-2003, 10:00 AM	#11
FZSarasota Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Hyperpro Springs Max, your statements in many of your posts in this thread against Hyperpro are false. You have claimed that no tuner would recommend them and have implied that no one should use them (on the track or street). You have even gone so low as to bashed the Hyperpro product, and me. Please let me quote you.... -------------------------- Max Wrote: "Between this and the Active Damper, I think we have a Hyper marketing company here, not a suspension innovator". -------------------------- Max Wrote: "You will not find anyone who recommends a Progressive spring, never mind another brand." -------------------------- Max Wrote: " I could easily make some bogus name up, jump on here and make a highly detailed post about how wonderful my parts are, or how I installed someone else's parts and crashed my bike." -------------------------- Max Wrote: "I cannot say I have seen a tech article more fraught with nonsense and half-truths as that ever." -------------------------- Max Wrote: "No suspension tuner in the US recommends progressively wound springs for any application." -------------------------- Max Wrote: "your reviews look more like you are employed by Hyperpro than a consumer of their products." -------------------------- Oh well, I have decided to post a list of Race teams that have used or are using hyper equip machines and a few quotes on the bottom from "racers" like Freddy Spencer who talk about their products. Since you "claim" to use facts, I can only post the facts that other race teams do use them. Can all these people be wrong in choosing HyperPro suspension products???? Anyway, please read on. Note: Ezboard sometimes can reformat a text layout. If you see an error in team names, racers, or standings, please let me know an I will correct it as fast as I can, Thanks.... ================== Race Team Lists ================== ================== World Championship ================== 2000 World championship 600 supersport Jörg Teuchert 1st World championship 600 supersport Christian Kellner 4th 2001 World championship 600 supersport Jörg Teuchert 3th World championship 600 supersport Christian Kellner 14th 2002 World championship 600 supersport Christian Kellner 6st World championship 600 supersport Jörg Teuchert 8th ======== PORTUGAL ======== Team Manager: Nuno Leitão Technicans: Pedro Lourenço, Bernardo e Sá, Pedro Felicidade e Manuel Logístics: Tomás Leitão, Joaquim de Oliveira 1996 - Portuguese Championship Sport Prodution 750; 1997 - Portuguese Championship Sport Prodution 750 and Macau GP; 1998 - Portuguese and Spanish Championships SuperSport 600; 1999 - Portuguese and Spanish Champioships SuperSport 600 and Macau GP; 2000 - Vice Champion of Portugal SuperSport 600, Spainish Championship Supersport 600, 3th European Race Supersport championship in Portugal. 2001 - Spanish Championship SuperSport 600, Lap Record Estoril SuperSport 600. 2002 - Vice Champion Spainish Championship Formula Extreme, 3th Portuguese Championship StockSport 1000, Lap Record StockSport Estoril and Braga, 2th Estoril Endurance. Pole Position Jarama Spainish Championship Formula Extreme. ======= Hungary ======= 2002: 400cc category Attila Braun-4th Supermoto 1st MX Category 1st Superstock enduro 1st ====== Suisse ====== 2001: laprecord Funny bike class distance: ¼ mile: time: 6.98 (s) topspeed: 319,8 km/h ====== France ====== 2002 Superproduction Honda CBR 954 Nicolas Prely 1st Team Endurance 25 Gerald Muteau 1st Yann Lussiana 2001 : Team Motorep (Endurance) Gerald Muteau 1st Bruno Bonhuil ===== Italy ===== 1997 European SS600 Ducati 748 Angelo Conti 1st 2002 Superstock Ducati 998S Alex Valia 1st ===== Spain ===== 2002 JAVIER DIAZ PAN. EXTREME 10th ISRAEL SANCHEZ EXTREME 4th VICTOR M. CARRASCO EXTREME 2nd IDALIO GAVIRA EXTREME 3rd JOSEP SARDA EXTREME 1st ======= Belgium ======= 2002: Koen Vleugels Superstock European Championship 5th R6 cup 1st ===== Japan ===== 1999 Over Racing 8 hours Suzuka endurance race 1st ====== U.S.A. ====== 2000 Aprillia Cup Aaron Clark 1st ===== Korea ===== 2002: Superbike Champion GSX-R750 Jung soo Moon 1st ===== Italy ===== 1997 European SS600 Ducati 748 Angelo Conti 1st 2002 Superstock Ducati 998S Alex Valia 1st ===== Korea ===== 2002: Superbike Champion GSX-R750 Jung soo Moon 1st ====== Poland ====== 2002: Supersport 600 2nd and 3rd Superbike 2nd Superstock 3rd PZM Cup to 600 5th PZM Cup up 600 2nd and 3rd Title of best racing team of the season ======= Holland ======= 2001 R6 cup Robert de Vries 1st 2002 R6 cup Robert de Vries 1st ======= Germany ======= ---------------------- Team / Fahrer / Klasse ---------------------- 1. Bange, Markus / Markus Bange / ADAC Junior-Cup 2. Dierks Motorradtechnik / Christian Schneider / IDM Superstock 3. Docshop Racing / Jennifer Kaulbach / ADAC Junior-Team 4. Docshop Racing / Marcus Zimmermann / ADAC Junior-Team 5. Docshop Racing / Martin Lenhof / IDM 125 ccm 6. Docshop Racing / Matthias Neukirchen / IDM 250 ccm 7. Docshop Racing / Phillip Hafeneger / IDM 250 ccm 8. Docshop Racing / Matthias Neukirchen / IDM Supersport 600 9. Docshop Racing / Mike Baldinger / IDM Supersport 600 10. Eble, Alexandra / Alexandra Eble / IDM 125 ccm 11. Fritz, Norbert / Norbert Fritz / IDM Superstock 12. Galinski, Michael / Michael Galinski / IDM Supersport 600 13. Geiger / Michael Geiger / X-treme, Stocksport 14. Freudenberg Racing /Dirk Heidolf / IDM 250 ccm 15. Zweirad Krause / Jürgen Müller / Stocksport, Serie 16. K + W Racing / Oliver Wagenführ / Langstrecke, Serie 17. K + W Racing / Kai Löke / Langstrecke, Serie 18. K + W Racing /Christian Pazer / Langstrecke, Serie 19. Motobox Racing Kremer / Peter Rink / Langstrecke 20. Motobox Racing Kremer / Martin Scherrer / Langstrecke 21. Thiele / Klaus Thiele / Ninja Cup 22. Wehran, Ronny / Ronny Wehran / Superstock 600 23. Steinhausen Racing / Jürgen Oelschläger / DM Supersport 600 24. Steinhausen Racing / Michael Witzeneder/ IDM Supersport 600 25. Steinhausen Racing / Benny Jerzenbeck / IDM Superstock 26. RSC-Team-Heinrich / Robert Ertl jr./ IDM 125 ccm 27. Motorsporttechnik / Thomas Zuckschwerdt / IDM Superstock 28. Bender Motorradsport / Stefan Scheschowitsch / IDM Supersport 600 29. Bender Motorradsport / Alexander Jolig / IDM Superstock 30. Elmar Geulen / Elmar Geulen / X-treme 31. Klaus Schulz / Klaus Schulz / IDM Superstock 32. Zweirad Teuchert / Günter Knobloch / EM Superstock 33. Harald Kitsch / Harald Kitsch / IDM Superstock 34. Rinolfi / Davide Bulega / Supersport 600 35. ALG Racing / Peter Preussler / IDM Superstock 36. Martensen / Jan Martensen / IDM Superstock 37. Königsbeck / Balaschov / Eisspeedway 38. Karthin Rennsport / Stefan Nebel / IDM Supersport 600 39. Maik Stief / Maik Stief / IDM Supersport 600 40. Steinmetz / Björn Steinmetz / IDM Supersport 600 41. Volker Volk / Volker Volk / Seriensport Kl. 8 42. Wellbrock & Co. / Jochen Schmid / Superbike 43. Motorsport S.Schmidt / Benjamin Nabert / IDM Superstock 44. Motorsport S.Schmidt / Markus Wegscheider / EM Superstock 45. Bridgestone Deutschland / Tim Röthig / Langstrecke 46. Motorrad Center / Patrick Hovenga / IDM Supersport 600 47. Casaer / Steven Casaer / Supersport 600 48. Daemen / Werner Daemen / WM Supersport 49. Shell-Advance / Rico Penzkofer / IDM Supersport 600 50. Racing Team Rath /Martin Rath / IDM Supersport 600 51. Emonts / Peter Sluka / IDM Supersport 600 52. Stop & Go Streuli / Ruedi Portmann / Supersport 600 ================================================== ====== ================================================== ====== ================================================== ====== I gathered from the web a few quotes talking about Hyperpro related products. ======================= Freddie Spencer Quotes: ======================= "In testing we concluded Hyperpro is the best suspension package. The front fork springs and rear shock gave improved stability without being too rigid. The shock offered good feel without the usual harshness at slow speeds. The looks and specifications of the steering dampers are designed in a way you cannot refuse any longer: A definite improvement over the stock suspension." ----- FREDDIE SPENCER's RIDING SCHOOL with HYPERPRO suspension. "At the school we only use the best quality products and Hyperpro fits the bill!. Hyperpro Suspension Kits and Steering Dampers are developed on the track to benefit the every day rider. Before using the products at the school, I personally tested them to make sure they lived up to the standards demanded at the school." - Freddie Spencer - 3 Time World Champion ========================================== Chuck Graves of Yamaha Motorsports Quotes: ========================================== Chuck Graves of Yamaha Motorsports declared the following: "Hyperpro steering dampers give me better control. They have a light low speed settings that keeps my arms from pumping up, but come strong at the first sign of head shake." -------- Now let's not forget the thousands of very satisfied customers (including myself now) that use Hyperpro Products. My point is Max, you have made statements that are false and I hope the information above shows the truth of your "REAL" intentions for responding and bashing Hyperpro products (that is, to sell your own goods). Anyway, take care and be well Max. -Terry [Have a safe and trouble free ride]

01-20-2003, 06:10 PM	#12
Rabeet Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Hyperpro Springs Very nice job writing that review. You and Pat must be related, eh?

01-20-2003, 07:08 PM	#13
Max McAllister Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Hyperpro Springs The part I referred to as inaccurate was not anything written by you. It was the part you copied from whatever marketing materials Hyperpro supplied you, or rather you found on their sites. The racers you quoted... Ever heard of any of them? You joke about me pointing out that the top racing body in the US (NASCAR) uses a different brand of spring than you recommend here because you don't own a stock car, and yet you are gleefully promoting the Suisse Funnybike drag racing champion? Have you ever entered your bike in a top fuel drag race? Seriously. A blanket statement is possible for the use of Progressively wound springs. Contact the following companies.. Traxxion Dynamics Race Tech Lindemann Engineering GMD Computrak That's it for nationally known companies. There are some small regional companies you can ask as well. Circuit One GP Suspension Aftershocks Cycle Tech or California Suspension Works You will not find anyone who recommends a Progressive spring, never mind another brand. What racetrack where you at when you rode your bike to its limits? The harshness tuners speak of from progressive springs shows up on a racetrack or on twisty roads when the bike is ridden aggresively. Simply "opening the bike up" will not exhibit the symptoms I am describing. You offer such detailed technical information, yet you don't want to answer technical questions. I don't understand that. ie, the spring chart you published. It shows three springs, all of which start with some different spring pressure on the X axis. What the heck does that mean? Doesn't any spring, of any rate, of any construction, start with "ZERO" pressure when it is laying on a table? Note all of the happy buzzwords and arrows pointing to the Hyperpro Spring, and all of the bad, negative words pointing to the other types of springs. Note also that there is no units assigned to this bogus marketing chart. You have accused me of product bashing, but your reviews look more like you are employed by Hyperpro than a consumer of their products. The owners of this list have chastised me for offering a counterpoint that is not happy and in agreement with your view. They don't want disagreement amongst vendors on this list. But if you can publish such detailed information I should be able to point out where the marketing stops and the reality starts. If the owners of FZ1 motorcycles want to read this kind of hype and just believe it to be fact without any counterpoint, then why even have an owner's list? Note too, that I post under my real name, and make no qualms about my opinions. I could easily make some bogus name up, jump on here and make a highly detailed post about how wonderful my parts are, or how I installed someone else's parts and crashed my bike. If you only want complete agreement on this list, let me know, and I won't post here any longer.

01-20-2003, 08:32 PM	#14
FZSarasota Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Re: Hyperpro Springs Yea, I have heard of a few of the teams listed (whats your point???) You are asking "technical" questions that you will have to direct to HyperPro. Call them and ask.... Have a nice Day Max -Terry

01-20-2003, 10:36 PM	#15
fastnfurious7 Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Re: Hyperpro Springs Max and Terry...I really wouldn't sweat all of this. This can easily be settled when Terry and I get together on this and swap bikes and write up our impressions (uhh, Terry, maybe you can do the layout...that looked real good). I'm pretty sure that my set up will be superior but, then again, it is about four times the cash outlay. I would be interested to see how far the gap between the two set ups REALLY is. I have been raving about this suspension modification since I got this machine. Having racked up about 4500 miles on the stockers on my 2001, I REALLY FEEL the difference. As I ride more in different situations, over different pavement, through different twisties, this set up inspires more and more confidence...it is SURE FOOTED. Here are the things I have noticed so far: 1) Over road imperfections the suspension just plain soaks the bumps up...even at a good lean. There is a moderately tight right hander on my favorite "close to the house" twisty road. It is completely humped by the roots of nearby trees. With the stock set up, I would have to shave off quite a bit of speed coming into the turn because the bike would get so upset by these roots that my line would be lost. With the new set up, the bike bumps over them, but transmits little to me...I can hold my line no problem. 2) When I come into a corner I can get on the brakes later and power out sooner because I can establish a better lean angle with this set up than the stockers. 3) When I do power out, the bike lays ALL of the power straight to the road...the bike never shudders under acceleration. This is felt even more when powering out of the corners at a good lean angle. With the stock set up, the bike would seem to wobble more as it was returning to the upright postion under acceleration. With the Traxxion set up...no more. 4) Going through the twisty road and swapping from a good left lean over to a good right lean or vice versa is now much less effort. Before, the bike would shimmy and felt heavier. Now it "feels" lighter because the effort to go from one side to another is much less. 5) Riding on the Super Slab is much more enjoyable as well. This is due to the same thing that was mentioned earlier about the road imperfections being consumed without transmitting so much back up to the rider. The ride is not harsh at all as some may suspect switching to tighter suspension would be. 6) Increased front end feel in the curves. The front end isn't spending as much time trying to jerk the bars from my hands when the front wheel encounters broken pavement and the result is increased front end feel. Now, I am probably slower than most riders...I am just out having a good time...but I want to make it back home. I have never really ridden with the super fast crowd so I don't know what that is really like (I guess I will find out when at the Rally I have to try to keep up with all of the crazy folks around here). This is just my take on the fine suspension offered by Max and his staff. I am quite pleased and, of course, would recommend them to anyone. I must also say that I recommend upgrading your suspension on the Fizzy as the FIRST place to put your mod money. This bike makes gobs of stock power...putting that power to road properly is money well spent in my book and it is EXACTLY what I wanted for my 2001 when I had it. I could have laid down the jack for many other things...but I was putting it all off until I could afford suspension. Luckily for me...this '02 came with this kick a$$ set up and I couldn't be more pleased with the results. Now, Terry, lets get that ride up here ASAP and see how these things PURR. I want to try out Ivan's needles as well.

01-21-2003, 07:47 AM	#16
FZSarasota Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Re: Hyperpro Springs Fast, there is no doubt that your setup rocks, I believe ya. I'm glad that you are getting all the performance you can out of the FZ1 (you gotta love this bike). -Terry [Have a safe and trouble free ride]

01-21-2003, 07:53 AM	#17
wArDoG Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Re: Hyperpro Springs Terry, Nice arm! Speaking only for myself I can say your intentions have been crystal clear. Thanks for the effort you put into the write up on both products. It's that kind of effort that has made this place such a great resource for our bike. I really appreciate it. Ride safe, Steve

01-21-2003, 10:15 AM	#18
PiliFZ1 Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Re: Hyperpro Springs Terry, I must say I'm with you as far as believing the truth is in the ride. We all gain experience from whatever we do, but it's important not to get narrow minded, getting biased as far as what is feasible or works well. I may be biased since I have a combi kit of Hyperpro springs sitting at home waiting to be installed. Thank you for the install tips and an excellent, detailed review, by the way. I hope your arm is improving. Paul

01-21-2003, 11:30 AM	#19
fastnfurious7 Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Re: Hyperpro Springs OUCH, Terry! Don't get me wrong...I'm with Dog on this one...I believe your intentions have been clear as well. I know that we are comparing apples to oranges and that is what I stated in my post. In case I was not clear, I wasn't trying to defend "my set up" over "yours". I am truely CURIOUS as to how much difference will be apparent between the two. That is all. I also don't like to see two people on this board that I like go at it. I think each is taking the other the wrong way. I think Max is SO passionate about his expertise that when he just wants to educate people on suspension it comes off a little harsh. I seem to do the same thing when I talk politics...especially on this board.:lol: Things just get taken differently on message boards. I also think the same is happening the other way and Max is not taking what you did here at face value. That being, that you are an FZ1 owner/operator that had a pleasant experience with a product and wanted us to know about it. That's not to say that you are unaware that other options exist and that some of them may be better. But, like you and I BOTH have been saying the whole time...when you weigh MONEY and IMPROVEMENT...sounds like you have a winner Max, from what you have posted, the progressive wound spring is not recommended (I have actually heard the same from Curtis and some other suspension savvy riders I know as well). Would doing a similar cost effective upgrade on the Fizzy be recommended with the straight weight springs? I know that with your passion you like to go all the way...and BELIEVE ME...most of the owners here would like to as well. However, the budget (and the S/O) doesn't always allow for this much of a commitment on a bike for everyone. Would you have a recommendation in this arena?

01-21-2003, 12:19 PM	#20
dippy Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Re: Hyperpro Springs I don't mean to through a wrench into the works here, but has any one tried Race Tech products (www.racetech.com)? Just asking as a 'Bandit' friend of mine just ordered some springs from them. I went through their valving search and got their custom valving suggestions (a lot of 'call', '?' marks and also a recommended fork spring rate of 0.000 Kg/mm!?!). Not that it means much to me right now as I have yet to pick up my Fizzy. I'm dreaming of possible to-do lists for next winter. I'm not trying to get into an argument just looking for opinions to keep my gray matter from freezing. :\|

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