make a donation to the fz1oa
fz1oa chat
fz1oa picture uploader
maintain your own photo albums
locate fz1oa members
Members Assistance Guide
search the entire board
click here for fz1oa web site home page
register a new account, it's free!
fz1oa store
email the fz1oa webmasters
read the fz1oa guidelines
read the fz1oa policy
open pat's fz1 site in a new window
open iowaz fz1 site in a new window
technical tips

Go Back   FZ1OA Message Board > FZ1 & Fazer Owners Association > Exhausts, Carburetion & Performance > Gen 2 Exhausts, Fueling & Performance

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-16-2012, 06:30 PM   #1
shiftredfz
Registered User
 
shiftredfz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Westminster, MD
Posts: 72
Smile ECU flash worth it?

Hey guys,

So I found out there is an ECU unleashed authorized tuner about an hour from me. They are also a Dynojet authorized tuner. I'm wondering if it's worth it to get the reflash done to the ECU Unleashed flash for our bikes and then have them do a custom tune on my PC3/IM setup. I have a 2008 FZ1.

The performance mods I am currently running is as follows:

-Ivan's FCE
-Ivan's Flies
-PC3/IM with Perfection or Ivan's map
-Lars Airbox mod
-BMC race filter
-Roth AIS block-off kit
-Leo Vince SBK Factory GP style slip-on
-Gutted Mid pipe
-02 sensor eliminator

I plan on doing Graves velocity stacks before the dyno run. I'm just trying to figure out whether the flash is worth it for advancing the ignition in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gear. I also have the gearing changed with a 15tooth up front so please don't give me the "change the gearing first" lecture. I am just looking for honest opinions for the experienced tuners out there that have done it or have some experience with it. I know there is a whole thread on this topic, and I've read through most of it. But i'm looking for opinions based on what I have and what I'm looking for.

I'm certainly open to thoughts and suggestions, as well as other recommended mods to add to my list. Thanks!!!
__________________
2008 FZ-1
Leo Vince Slip On|Gutted Cat|Lars AB|BMC Filter|Roth AIS|
Ivan's FCE|Ivan's Flies|PC3|IM|02 Eliminator|Targa FE|
CD SpeedScreen|Smoked Proton Flushmounts|Tank Pad|
Scorpio SR-I900R Alarm|DDM Tuning 55W Hi/Lo 6k HID|
StreetFX Red LED kit|Shogun Carbon Fiber Frame Sliders
shiftredfz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2012, 08:26 PM   #2
SoCalFZRider
__________________
 
SoCalFZRider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: So Cal High Desert
Posts: 1,366
It was worth it for me but I don't have the mods you have. Tuning after the flash is a definite requirement in my book.

If you already have an IM and FCE, there might not be much left that a flash can improve upon. This is a certainly a subjective statement - ECUnleashed doesn't give any detail about parameter changes.

Recommendations - Yosh or equivalent full system. Really fills in the mid-range compared to a slip-on/gutted mid-pipe.
SoCalFZRider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2012, 11:10 PM   #3
shiftredfz
Registered User
 
shiftredfz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Westminster, MD
Posts: 72
Thanks. Yeah a set of headers will come eventually. I like the shorty style pipe. If I can find a boz moira b1 for the r1, I'd snatch it up. But it's next to impossible to find.

And the main thing I'm concerned with is the noticeable power difference with the timing retard elimination in the first 3 gears.
__________________
2008 FZ-1
Leo Vince Slip On|Gutted Cat|Lars AB|BMC Filter|Roth AIS|
Ivan's FCE|Ivan's Flies|PC3|IM|02 Eliminator|Targa FE|
CD SpeedScreen|Smoked Proton Flushmounts|Tank Pad|
Scorpio SR-I900R Alarm|DDM Tuning 55W Hi/Lo 6k HID|
StreetFX Red LED kit|Shogun Carbon Fiber Frame Sliders
shiftredfz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2012, 03:03 AM   #4
upinsmoke
What ya gonna do about it
 
upinsmoke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: NC
Posts: 3,619
At this point flashing for the FZ is a waste of money and counterproductive, your bike is already running the best it can. The bike is a beast with the mods, now go out and learn some cornering skills. If you have money burning a hole in your pocket, buy some suspension parts, go to a track school, ect...
__________________
"Drop the Clutch"

2014 Triumph STR
upinsmoke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2012, 04:02 AM   #5
whittlebeast
Registered User
 
whittlebeast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,541
Power is a very subjective thing. The question evolves into what is enough power? As a motor gets more power, the vehicle can often gets more difficult to drive smooth and can get less enjoyable to drive. Throttle response can get quite violent with some motors.

I teach car racing and believe me, the human brain can often confuse smooth, fast, quick, noise and violence.

With that said, I personally have gotten to a power level on my FZ1 with stock ECU and fine tuning that I am no longer seeking more power.

Beast
__________________
Max acceleration is always with the front tire slightly in the air. When the racers get done doing the impossible, the engineers get a chance to rebuild the model.

Holeshot Highmount quiet, No-Mar Fender Eliminator, SW-MOTECH Bar risers and Crashbars with Saten666 highway pegs, HEL Stainless brake lines, PC5 with full time widebands and data logging running a MAP based custom map tuned with MegaLogViewer HD, T-Rex Frame sliders, 16 - 45 gears, Throttlemeister.
whittlebeast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2012, 05:27 AM   #6
eurban
Registered User
 
eurban's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 459
Currently, there seems to be a lot of question marks about what is actually accomplished with the reflash. Are they actually removing the fuel cut for instance? Waiting for them to sort out the issues (or give up trying to improve the flash for the small FZ market) makes some sense.

Overall, with the mods you already have you should have the fuel cut, fueling curve and some of the ignition based restrictions already taken care of. The gains from a proper reflash would most certainly be less than for a bike without the aftermarket goodies you already have. It would be nice to dump the piggy back stuff but for now I don't think the flash is ready. The PC will probably always be required for heavily modded bikes.

Spend the money on a quality header (Arrow makes a good one) before doing the reflash. It should be good for close to 10hp right in the meat of the midrange. Add this to your otherwise "complete" mod package and you will have serious power that is smoothly delivered
__________________
06 Shift Red,FCE, PCIII, IM, E Map, AIS removed, Airbox Mod, BMC filter, Smaller Flies, Full Yosh R77 Titanium, 16t, Speedo DRD, Penske 8983, 08 R1 forks and front brakes, Speigler brake lines, Easton EXP bars and risers, Copperdawg Speed Screen, Sargent seat, Givi rack and top case . . . . . . .
eurban is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2012, 09:58 AM   #7
shiftredfz
Registered User
 
shiftredfz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Westminster, MD
Posts: 72
Thanks for the input. I understand this bike has plenty of power for anyone really and am not questioning what it has. I am simply questioning what it is truly capable of. I'm always going to be running the PC and IM, but I am simply wondering what 1st-3rd gear would be like without the timing retarded.

Suspension is on my list of things to do as is the headers. Honestly, I'm waiting to find a boz moira b1 full exhaust on an r1 site. I love the way it looks and sounds. I'm giving it some time, but next spring is suspension and headers. If i don't find one by then, I am going to get a set of arrow headers.

I am simply looking for results of the timing issues that would be addressed. I have a tendency to have extremely smooth and precise throttle control, which is why I ride my 450 dirt bike better than I do my 250 in all conditions, and I have a quick turn throttle on both. It's my riding style. I'd like to have the capablity to pick the front end up or spin the back tire a little on a corner exit in 2nd or 3rd gear if I get on it hard, simply because I have a good feel for that fine edge. Call me crazy, but i'd love to have that.

As far as cornering, I'm always trying to perfect my cornering, which is why pretty much all I ride are twisty roads. That's where I have the most fun. Although I will be taking my bike to the drag strip either this fall or in the spring just for shits and giggles to see what I can run.

Again, thanks for all the input. I know there are other mods out there that I haven't yet done and are certainly on the list. I am just wondering if there is a noticable difference with timing issues addressed.
__________________
2008 FZ-1
Leo Vince Slip On|Gutted Cat|Lars AB|BMC Filter|Roth AIS|
Ivan's FCE|Ivan's Flies|PC3|IM|02 Eliminator|Targa FE|
CD SpeedScreen|Smoked Proton Flushmounts|Tank Pad|
Scorpio SR-I900R Alarm|DDM Tuning 55W Hi/Lo 6k HID|
StreetFX Red LED kit|Shogun Carbon Fiber Frame Sliders
shiftredfz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2012, 10:57 AM   #8
SoCalFZRider
__________________
 
SoCalFZRider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: So Cal High Desert
Posts: 1,366
1st - 3rd gear feel great after the flash. Low end torque as judged by the butt dyno is much improved. Is it better than what an IM can do? Don't have an answer to that, but I would think the IM can do just as well if it is only an ignition timing adjustment.

The fuel cut is still there. There have been at least 2 reported flash revisions after mine was done, maybe ECUnleashed finally took care of it.
SoCalFZRider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2012, 01:08 PM   #9
Squidlius
Incorrigible
 
Squidlius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 567
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalFZRider View Post
1st - 3rd gear feel great after the flash. Low end torque as judged by the butt dyno is much improved. Is it better than what an IM can do? Don't have an answer to that, but I would think the IM can do just as well if it is only an ignition timing adjustment.

The fuel cut is still there. There have been at least 2 reported flash revisions after mine was done, maybe ECUnleashed finally took care of it.
I thought the selling point was that they removed the fuel cut and 1st-3rd restrictions? It's not worth much without that.
Squidlius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2012, 01:13 PM   #10
whittlebeast
Registered User
 
whittlebeast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,541
The fuel cut on the 07 and later bikes can be tuned around with a PC5. The 1-3 restriction is quit different.
__________________
Max acceleration is always with the front tire slightly in the air. When the racers get done doing the impossible, the engineers get a chance to rebuild the model.

Holeshot Highmount quiet, No-Mar Fender Eliminator, SW-MOTECH Bar risers and Crashbars with Saten666 highway pegs, HEL Stainless brake lines, PC5 with full time widebands and data logging running a MAP based custom map tuned with MegaLogViewer HD, T-Rex Frame sliders, 16 - 45 gears, Throttlemeister.
whittlebeast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2012, 01:32 PM   #11
SoCalFZRider
__________________
 
SoCalFZRider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: So Cal High Desert
Posts: 1,366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squidlius View Post
I thought the selling point was that they removed the fuel cut and 1st-3rd restrictions? It's not worth much without that.
1st-3rd restrictions, yes. Fuel cut, no.

Quote:
Originally Posted by whittlebeast View Post
The fuel cut on the 07 and later bikes can be tuned around with a PC5. The 1-3 restriction is quit different.
Even with the fuel cut, the bike is tuning quite nicely with a PC5 and 2 fuel maps. Have been working on the transition from manifold pressure to TPS to better compensate for elevation changes. A ride over the mountains to the beach will show how well it's working.
SoCalFZRider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2012, 05:15 PM   #12
Bruno
Registered User
 
Bruno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: LaGrange,Texas
Posts: 41
I will say this, my nephew just purchased a 2012 FZ1. We went out yesterday evening and did a 40 mph roll on full throttle stab. Both of us were in 2nd gear. I think I was tacking close to 6k. His bike is dead stock. His bike pulls very hard 1-3, we were dead even. I was able to pull away 4-6 gears as his stock gearing could not match mine and he was unable to red line in 6th. He did better leaving it in 5th. I was feathering the thottle at launch with front tire in air but was able to ride it out hitting the freaking rev limiter almost too quickly. I had just got off of his bike with stock gearing. Anyway, I truly beleive the 2012 ECU has been improved. I would consider the flash. I wonder what would happen if I was to put his ECU in my bike what would happen and mine in his bike with a zero map. Here are my mods. Air box mod,no flies,slip on Yoshi,16t,dyno map,PC5,2009.

Last edited by Bruno; 08-18-2012 at 08:53 AM.
Bruno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2012, 08:59 AM   #13
Ivan
Performance Master
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Congers, NY
Posts: 3,314
Quote:
Originally Posted by shiftredfz View Post
Thanks for the input. I understand this bike has plenty of power for anyone really and am not questioning what it has. I am simply questioning what it is truly capable of. I'm always going to be running the PC and IM, but I am simply wondering what 1st-3rd gear would be like without the timing retarded.

Suspension is on my list of things to do as is the headers. Honestly, I'm waiting to find a boz moira b1 full exhaust on an r1 site. I love the way it looks and sounds. I'm giving it some time, but next spring is suspension and headers. If i don't find one by then, I am going to get a set of arrow headers.

I am simply looking for results of the timing issues that would be addressed. I have a tendency to have extremely smooth and precise throttle control, which is why I ride my 450 dirt bike better than I do my 250 in all conditions, and I have a quick turn throttle on both. It's my riding style. I'd like to have the capablity to pick the front end up or spin the back tire a little on a corner exit in 2nd or 3rd gear if I get on it hard, simply because I have a good feel for that fine edge. Call me crazy, but i'd love to have that.

As far as cornering, I'm always trying to perfect my cornering, which is why pretty much all I ride are twisty roads. That's where I have the most fun. Although I will be taking my bike to the drag strip either this fall or in the spring just for shits and giggles to see what I can run.

Again, thanks for all the input. I know there are other mods out there that I haven't yet done and are certainly on the list. I am just wondering if there is a noticable difference with timing issues addressed.

The best place to spend more money that will give you some more power is the Yosh full system... this will give another 8-10 hp in the midrange.

Your bike has the FCE, so it is not restricted... The only improvement that you may see is below 6000 in 1st gear with a re-flash.

EcUnleashed flashes change the fuel... you will need to get a custom map made for your PC3/V... another $1000.00 by the time you're done - (flash and re-tune)

It may not run as good as it does now when you're finished.

If you need more explaining, just call me during business hours.


Ivan
__________________
ivansperformanceproducts.com
Ivan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2012, 12:36 PM   #14
kingsxjt
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 114
I have the reflash (2nd version). I can't say great things about ECUnleashed as a company. They have very sketchy customer support at best. I am OK with the flash, but not 100% satisfied. I am about to do a custom MAP now that I have a PC5 which should make the bike right. As Ivan and others have said, I would spend my money on a full length instead. MAPs are available for stock ECU's. Reflashed puts you in the custom MAP/Autotune category.
__________________
Shift Red 2008 FZ1 ECUnleashed flash, PCV, Custom Map, Auto Tune, BMC air filter, Roth block off plates, Ivan's sub-throttle plates, 12 0'clock labs Exup eliminator, gutted cat and 2 Bros Slip on P1X Insert, Speedo DRD, SV650 Risers, Dual PIAA Horns, Beltronics Radar, Copperdawg Speedscreen
kingsxjt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2012, 01:43 PM   #15
Squidlius
Incorrigible
 
Squidlius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 567
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan View Post
The best place to spend more money that will give you some more power is the Yosh full system... this will give another 8-10 hp in the midrange.

<--->

Ivan
I regret not having bought a Yosh full system for mine. I didn't realize it added that much to the midrange.

.
Squidlius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2012, 01:31 PM   #16
shiftredfz
Registered User
 
shiftredfz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Westminster, MD
Posts: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan View Post
The best place to spend more money that will give you some more power is the Yosh full system... this will give another 8-10 hp in the midrange.

Your bike has the FCE, so it is not restricted... The only improvement that you may see is below 6000 in 1st gear with a re-flash.

EcUnleashed flashes change the fuel... you will need to get a custom map made for your PC3/V... another $1000.00 by the time you're done - (flash and re-tune)

It may not run as good as it does now when you're finished.

If you need more explaining, just call me during business hours.


Ivan
Thanks Ivan for the input. I'm really happy with my setup. Full length exhaust is definitely coming at some point.

Thank you everyone for the input. It sounds to me like it might make a difference but not enough to be worth it since I already have fuel and ignition maps. improvements below 6k in 1st gear are almost useless since it gets up past that in such little about of time anyways. A little dirt bike style clutch work will help below that.
__________________
2008 FZ-1
Leo Vince Slip On|Gutted Cat|Lars AB|BMC Filter|Roth AIS|
Ivan's FCE|Ivan's Flies|PC3|IM|02 Eliminator|Targa FE|
CD SpeedScreen|Smoked Proton Flushmounts|Tank Pad|
Scorpio SR-I900R Alarm|DDM Tuning 55W Hi/Lo 6k HID|
StreetFX Red LED kit|Shogun Carbon Fiber Frame Sliders
shiftredfz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2012, 09:56 PM   #17
CrazyBiker
Smooottthhh....
 
CrazyBiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 5,272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squidlius View Post
I regret not having bought a Yosh full system for mine. I didn't realize it added that much to the midrange.

.
You know now why my FZ1 kills the N1K ... ofcourse it would be a close one with the N1K full modded with a full system too. But again, why waste the money selling the FZ1 and buying a N1K if it is not necessary.
__________________
2007 Raven FZ1-R
Penske Shock|R1 Forks,MC|HEL SS Lines|3-way Adj Levers|Easton Bars|Giles Rearsets
Ivan ECU Flash|Micron Full System|Lars AB|BMC Filter|Roth Stacks,AIE|CD STPs|PC5|SHv4
CF/CNC bits|T-Rex Sliders|Spencer Seat|Puig DB|Techspec|Heated Grips|HIDs|Protons Signals

2006 Daytona 675-R
Ohlins Shock|GPR Damper|Attack Rearsets|Pazzos|2Bro Exhaust|Saddlemen Seat|Seat Cowl|HIDs

CrazyBiker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2012, 03:41 PM   #18
Squidlius
Incorrigible
 
Squidlius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 567
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyBiker View Post
You know now why my FZ1 kills the N1K ... ofcourse it would be a close one with the N1K full modded with a full system too. But again, why waste the money selling the FZ1 and buying a N1K if it is not necessary.
That's one I completely agree on, why spend the money unless you really want to. The only reason I did was because my FZ1 reached end of life for me. I replace my bikes every 6 years.
Squidlius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2012, 04:04 PM   #19
CrazyBiker
Smooottthhh....
 
CrazyBiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 5,272
How is the ECU flash faring so far with the N1K folks? I think after seeing the N1K intiative, I put the bug on this forum but not much has moved on the FZ1 side of things.
__________________
2007 Raven FZ1-R
Penske Shock|R1 Forks,MC|HEL SS Lines|3-way Adj Levers|Easton Bars|Giles Rearsets
Ivan ECU Flash|Micron Full System|Lars AB|BMC Filter|Roth Stacks,AIE|CD STPs|PC5|SHv4
CF/CNC bits|T-Rex Sliders|Spencer Seat|Puig DB|Techspec|Heated Grips|HIDs|Protons Signals

2006 Daytona 675-R
Ohlins Shock|GPR Damper|Attack Rearsets|Pazzos|2Bro Exhaust|Saddlemen Seat|Seat Cowl|HIDs

CrazyBiker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2012, 05:01 PM   #20
Squidlius
Incorrigible
 
Squidlius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 567
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyBiker View Post
How is the ECU flash faring so far with the N1K folks? I think after seeing the N1K intiative, I put the bug on this forum but not much has moved on the FZ1 side of things.
I only know of a couple who have done it but they like it. It gets rid of the lower gear restrictions, eliminates fuel cut/reduces engine braking, opens the flies sooner and eliminates popping with exhaust systems. You still need a PCV if you mod the airbox, pull the flies and/or run open exhausts.
Squidlius is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   FZ1OA Message Board > FZ1 & Fazer Owners Association > Exhausts, Carburetion & Performance > Gen 2 Exhausts, Fueling & Performance


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:23 AM.


Questions? Comments?
Click on name below to contact via PM
wArDoG (Prez, Treasurer, Web Site & Admin) Rabeet (Admin)
firstfz (Web Site & Admin) Desmo (Admin)
RoadRashed (Admin) dipps (Admin)
Black Mantis (Moderator) pogden (Moderator)

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Website and Message Board Contents Copyright 2001-2007 FZ1OA
The marks YAMAHA® and FZ1® are used under license from Yamaha Motor Corporation, U.S.A.
The information on this web site is NOT approved or endorsed by Yamaha Motor Corporation in any way.
Page generated in 0.24527 seconds with 8 queries