Front tire lock-up vs. lifting the rear wheel

[hooligan998]

36/39 psi in the tires seems a bit high. Try lowering them 1 psi at a time until you find that sweet spot your looking for.

I usually run below recommended psi for better grip. Not much, usually 2 or 3 psi less. I have Pirelli Angel STs on my FZ. I run 35/35. If I'm going out on a spirited ride, I will run 33 or 34 depending on air temps outside and whether or not the roads have been baking in the sun all day. But basically, your high pressure in the front is not allowing the tire carcass to flex and grip the pavement, so you are never developing enough grip to lift the rear wheel, thus lock up occurs before that point.

[jredford]

Originally Posted by hooligan998

36/39 psi in the tires seems a bit high. Try lowering them 1 psi at a time until you find that sweet spot your looking for.

I usually run below recommended psi for better grip. Not much, usually 2 or 3 psi less. I have Pirelli Angel STs on my FZ. I run 35/35. If I'm going out on a spirited ride, I will run 33 or 34 depending on air temps outside and whether or not the roads have been baking in the sun all day. But basically, your high pressure in the front is not allowing the tire carcass to flex and grip the pavement, so you are never developing enough grip to lift the rear wheel, thus lock up occurs before that point.

I find your post interesting. I run Angels on my r1200rt but never thought of running them in my FZ1. How do you like them? Do you commute a lot?

[bjrowser]

Thanks all for the comments.

I'll try dropping a psi or two and see if I can tell a difference. I run 36 in the front only because that's what the sticker on the swingarm recommends, and when the front is a few psi down I notice the handlebars feel "heavier" in slow corners.

I'm surprised at some of the comments that recommend staying off the back brake altogether...as long as it's on the ground, it'll provide some traction and thus additional stopping power. In normal driving I use the back brake on virtually every stop...sometimes exclusively when I only need a small amount of slowing. I'm not the most experienced rider (only been riding on the street for 3-4 years) but using both the front and rear brakes as needed just seems logical. Am I off-base here?

[Blues 48]

No.

[Cougar8000]

Originally Posted by Sammax

Oh, I'm not at all trying to give advice on how to do it. Just my observation that it seems there is more stopping power on the front wheel versus the rear.

Maybe I could have picked a better adjective or verb..... whatever it is.

You are 30000% correct. Front is where the gold is, but rear has some bling as well. So, it should not be forgotten.

[-Dash-]

Originally Posted by bjrowser

Thanks all for the comments.

I'll try dropping a psi or two and see if I can tell a difference. I run 36 in the front only because that's what the sticker on the swingarm recommends, and when the front is a few psi down I notice the handlebars feel "heavier" in slow corners.

I'm surprised at some of the comments that recommend staying off the back brake altogether...as long as it's on the ground, it'll provide some traction and thus additional stopping power. In normal driving I use the back brake on virtually every stop...sometimes exclusively when I only need a small amount of slowing. I'm not the most experienced rider (only been riding on the street for 3-4 years) but using both the front and rear brakes as needed just seems logical. Am I off-base here?

The issue surrounding the back brake is not that it doesnt provide a very very small amount of braking in a sudden panic stop. As you say, its obvious. The issue is whether or not you have the talent, composure, experience, ability, and highly practiced and ingrained muscle memory to overcome your reflexes and very, very, very finely modulate the back brake while the tire is extremely light (assuming you are using the front brake at max).

The issue is whether you can do that when something so sudden happens in front of you that you have no time to prepare for it. In a split second you go from happy-happy to react or die. In that moment, with the object in front of you that can injure or kill you, while slamming down on the front brake and modulating that at max, while trying to find a place to swerve and to actually perform the swerve while under heavy to max front brake, while fighting off muscle-tensing, breath holding, mind-locking, target-fixating physiological effect of panic and reflex....

...do you truly believe you can modulate the back brake with your right foot to provide the extremely fine amount of braking to prevent it from sliding?

If you really think you can do that, then go for it. Otherwise, remember, that discontinuing use of the back brake isnt about your daily ho-hum riding, its about that one singular moment where you need all the control you can muster, and the least amount of distractions to divert your mind.

[hooligan998]

Originally Posted by jredford

I find your post interesting. I run Angels on my r1200rt but never thought of running them in my FZ1. How do you like them? Do you commute a lot?

I commute almost every night. 50 miles round trip. Half twisty, half interstate. I have about 3K on them now and I like them. Good feel dry and wet. They replaced the Pirelli Stradas that I loved so much. So far they are equal in every way to the Stradas and seem to be wearing very well. On the Stradas, I would get 2 rears to one front, so about 5 - 7K per rear. The Angels seem to be be doing better mileage-wise so far.

BUT, I have not had the chance to flog these tires like I did my Stradas running on the Gap and up the backside of Blood Mountain. But they are confidence inspiring and I'm pretty sure they would be up to the challenge.

[Dr. Wood]

Originally Posted by DashRiprock

The issue surrounding the back brake is not that it doesnt provide a very very small amount of braking in a sudden panic stop. As you say, its obvious. The issue is whether or not you have the talent, composure, experience, ability, and highly practiced and ingrained muscle memory to overcome your reflexes and very, very, very finely modulate the back brake while the tire is extremely light (assuming you are using the front brake at max).

The issue is whether you can do that when something so sudden happens in front of you that you have no time to prepare for it. In a split second you go from happy-happy to react or die. In that moment, with the object in front of you that can injure or kill you, while slamming down on the front brake and modulating that at max, while trying to find a place to swerve and to actually perform the swerve while under heavy to max front brake, while fighting off muscle-tensing, breath holding, mind-locking, target-fixating physiological effect of panic and reflex....

...do you truly believe you can modulate the back brake with your right foot to provide the extremely fine amount of braking to prevent it from sliding?

If you really think you can do that, then go for it. Otherwise, remember, that discontinuing use of the back brake isnt about your daily ho-hum riding, its about that one singular moment where you need all the control you can muster, and the least amount of distractions to divert your mind.

Thank you. Very well put.
My first crash was for this very reason. I was new to riding, an old guy pulled out of a parking lot right in front of me, I was doing about 40 mph, I grabbed a handfull of front and thought I gave a little bit o' rear but the rear locked up and I low sided. When you have that much sudden front and the rear is so light, it doesent take much rear. When your wearing riding boots, its really hard to tell how much pressure your applying.
Good luck!

[TheRepairMan]

I recall the very first time I tried stopping from high speed on my 06. I touched the rear brake about the same time I loaded the front, and the rear tire started chattering hard at about 100mph. I was afraid to let off of it not knowing what would happen, plus I was running out of space and was pulling harder on the front waiting for something real bad to happen. It didn't, but I found out real quickly how easy it is to lock the rear.

I'll still scrub off some speed with the rear, but no more hard stops. Practice is the key, for sure. It's funny... I know guys on cruisers who never touch the front.

-R

[DPNonafiz]

Originally Posted by DashRiprock

The issue surrounding the back brake is not that it doesnt provide a very very small amount of braking in a sudden panic stop. As you say, its obvious. The issue is whether or not you have the talent, composure, experience, ability, and highly practiced and ingrained muscle memory to overcome your reflexes and very, very, very finely modulate the back brake while the tire is extremely light (assuming you are using the front brake at max).

The issue is whether you can do that when something so sudden happens in front of you that you have no time to prepare for it. In a split second you go from happy-happy to react or die. In that moment, with the object in front of you that can injure or kill you, while slamming down on the front brake and modulating that at max, while trying to find a place to swerve and to actually perform the swerve while under heavy to max front brake, while fighting off muscle-tensing, breath holding, mind-locking, target-fixating physiological effect of panic and reflex....

...do you truly believe you can modulate the back brake with your right foot to provide the extremely fine amount of braking to prevent it from sliding?

If you really think you can do that, then go for it. Otherwise, remember, that discontinuing use of the back brake isnt about your daily ho-hum riding, its about that one singular moment where you need all the control you can muster, and the least amount of distractions to divert your mind.

you nailed it right there.
Its more trouble than its worth .

[eskort]

Reading this some thoughts come to mind---
I once had a panic stop in traffic where I almost rear ended a van without brake lights. When I hit the brakes, the rear did come up. That's when I knew it was time to spend the $$ for suspension upgrades.

Getting the bike properly setup for your weight makes a huge difference in the stopping distance and control in a panic stop. The FZ1 in stock form is setup for a very light person (I've heard 140#--I weighed that in about 7th grade). The front suspension doesn't compress as much and I believe that reduces the amount of weight transfer to the front. This allows you to use more rear brake also.

On the subject of rear brakes, I learned to ride in the dirt where you use the front sparingly and do more braking with the rear. In the dirt (and especially sand), if you lock up the front, it is very easy for your front wheel to get sideways and high side the bike--launching you over the bars! So you get proficient at rear brake modulation and keeping the bike straight during braking. You also get proficient at the feel of getting sideways, and recovering the bike when it does.

So when I started riding on the street, it never would occur to me not to use the rear brake--but obviously to use a lot more front. As you get more proficient at braking, you now have the opportunity to learn how to trail brake the bike in turns and help to point the bike as well as smooth the transition to "power on" as you begin to accelerate out of the curve. And I'm a big fan of "re pointing" the bike with the rear brake when I find I've hit the curve a little too hot and need to adjust my line and speed.

All of this requires learning to modulate the rear with caution but to use the rear when appropriate. I never brake the bike without using the rear also--it becomes second nature and you develop a feel for proper front to rear brake balance. It's important to learn how to do this all the time so when the emergency comes up, it's all second nature and you can feel what's happening to the bike and adjust accordingly.

Dirt riding is a great training ground for braking and learning bike control in general. Of course , you learn to "take a licking but keep on ticking"--much better at age 16 than my present age of 61! The dirt is much more forgiving than concrete and cars.