What price cheap electronics? Foxconn again...

[Buccleuch]

I'm not much of a gadget geek. I have one computer, a fluid-cooled system that I built, and one iPhone. No home theater, no surround sound, no gaming console, no iPad, etc. Okay, I have a Kindle. So I feel somehow somewhat partially responsible.

We have two TV's, one made in Mexico and one made in the US (believe it or not; I was surprised). I try NOT to buy made-in-China stuff at every opportunity that presents itself, from shoes to sunglasses to everything else. When I shopped for those TV's, I deliberately avoided the made-in-China label.

All that said, really, how long can this go on? Have we no conscience when it comes to this stuff?

Hundreds Threaten Suicide At Microsoft Supplier Plant In China

SEATTLE, Wash. (CBS Seattle) – Some 300 Chinese Foxconn employees who manufacture X-box 360 machines said they would throw themselves from their Wuhan, China, plant if demands for lost wages were not met.

...

Management at Foxconn — the world’s largest contract electronics manufacturer and a crucial link in the supply chains of Apple, Dell, Nintendo and Song — responded with an ultimatum. Employees could quit with one month’s compensation awarded for each year with the plant or go back to working.

Many employees quit, but Foxconn allegedly dishonored the agreement and awarded former employees nothing.

Opening capital markets in formerly (ostensibly, still) communist countries, and the resultant labor issues that accompany such, is messy - I get that. I also know that were it not for opening those high-tech manufacturing centers, many of these very people now protesting for better wages, working conditions, justice, etc., would be living hand-to-mouth in squalor. But have we no qualms about how our appetite for cheap goods affects others? Some of these plants have actually put nets up to catch the would-be suicide jumper. Really??

We get upset in this country if the coffee machine is on the fritz one morning... Heh...

No, I don't have answers...

WA.

[flbusa]

Wow... Pretty extreme ultimatum. Pay me or I'm gonna jump!

With regard to your electronics purchases... I don't think that buying from any country will net you something that didn't have components made in China. In other words... They may be assembled in Mexico but most of the components came from either China, Korea or Taiwan.

It's not something you have any control over so buy what makes you happy.

[eflyguy]

i.e., Foxconn makes component sub-assemblies that are used in Dell consumer and enterprise products, for example..

No, I don't have answers either but I have to wonder if local laws could be established? What prevents employers here from the same behavior? Oh, I guess nothing - like when the airlines defaulted on the pension plans of their employees..
..a

[bigdave43]

The CEO of Intel said that he wants the US to be just like China. That's why I buy AMD cpu's. Besides, they don't rip you off with their prices like Intel. The guy is a nut case.

[motomania]

everyone would do well to study history.

There are 2 ways to "influence" other nations: military force and trade

Military force involves occupation and direct military control. We can see how well that works in modern times.

Trade allows you to influence the other country by making them reliant on you for their economic well being. Right now China NEEDS US and other western nations' trade and consumerism to fuel the Chinese economic growth and their growing domestic middle class of consumers.

Trade also allows social engineering of 3rd world countries. If you can bring jobs to a 3rd world country then you bring economic and political stability because the people there are less worried about surviving next week and start enjoying life and strive to grow further.

This means you export menial labor jobs to those countries you wish to develop.

This exporting of jobs as a way of trade is now called "outsourcing" and everyone seems to think this is a new thing.

It is not new, it is a normal part of economic trade and is the basis for all of the world's exploration throughout history. It was always searching for good and importing/exporting (trading) goods and services in one area with another and learning how (services) to make/grow/produce an in demand product closer to the consumers that are demanding that product.

The MAIN reason the Europeans came to the "new world" was outsourcing:
Georgia was outsourced prisons
Much of the Southeastern US was outsourcing the textile industries from Europe because they needed more land to produce the textiles they needed and they were running out of land.
Similarly, the northeastern part of the US was outsourced ship-building, logging, mining and metal works to supply European demand.
When Europe could not feed their masses, they exported them to the US because there was free land and the people they could not feed could learn to make their own way here.

After North America seceded from Europe and became US, Canada and Mexico, the European shifted their focus on to South America and Australia.

We are now growing China's economy as a way of influencing them.

We are doing the same thing with India.

Next will be Africa.

Study your history and it is all right there, plain and simple.

As to the OP, yes there is a lot of strife with change, always is and always will be.

I feel bad for those that are "oppressed" in those factories in China, however, if we all stopped buying their products there would be mass revolution in China and the Chinese government would likely mow them down like so many weeds and if the Chinese government didn't kill them, famine would.

It is not an ideal situation but there are far worse options.

[flbusa]

Originally Posted by motomania

everyone would do well to study history.

I think you mean "Historical Data"

History, as it's taught in schools... is pretty much B.S.

[motomania]

Originally Posted by flbusa

I think you mean "Historical Data"

History, as it's taught in schools... is pretty much B.S.

Good point!

[Rabeet]

Howdy neighbor (Gilroy).

[gotfz1]

Originally Posted by flbusa

I think you mean "Historical Data"

History, as it's taught in schools... is pretty much B.S.

That's because its purpose is to groom those we need for the "military force" aspect mentioned above.

[motomania]

Originally Posted by Rabeet

Howdy neighbor (Gilroy).

I live in San Martin now but I lived in Gilroy until a year ago I guess I neglected to update my city in my profile. We are still pretty much neighbors though!

[motomania]

Originally Posted by gotfz1

That's because its purpose is to groom those we need for the "military force" aspect mentioned above.

I disagree with that. It is definitely used for that purpose but is also used to shade the historical facts according to the most popular view of history at that time. This is done in numerous ways such as by emphasizing certain periods or persons and de-emphasizing others. This is also done to placate (political correctness) certain groups.

Case in point is the current historical textbooks are being adjusted to reduce the page/word count on our "founding fathers" and increase the page/word count on minority persons involvement/society at the same time period.

Not to minimize the plight of slavery, for example, in late 1700s but it seems to me that the formation of the Country is just a little more important. But thats my view.

[gotfz1]

Originally Posted by motomania

I disagree with that. It is definitely used for that purpose

Ok.

Case in point is the current historical textbooks are being adjusted to reduce the page/word count on our "founding fathers" and increase the page/word count on minority persons involvement/society at the same time period.

Well we could just keep making them bigger.

Not to minimize the plight of slavery, for example, in late 1700s but it seems to me that the formation of the Country is just a little more important. But thats my view.

And the view of many and it speaks volumes. Pun intended.

[robrides85]

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radi...-apple-factory

[Rabeet]

Originally Posted by motomania

I disagree with that. It is definitely used for that purpose but is also used to shade the historical facts according to the most popular view of history at that time. This is done in numerous ways such as by emphasizing certain periods or persons and de-emphasizing others. This is also done to placate (political correctness) certain groups.

Case in point is the current historical textbooks are being adjusted to reduce the page/word count on our "founding fathers" and increase the page/word count on minority persons involvement/society at the same time period.

Not to minimize the plight of slavery, for example, in late 1700s but it seems to me that the formation of the Country is just a little more important. But thats my view.

The problem is history should at least pretend to try to show everyone's point of view. From mine, that time period was leading up the the attempted genocide of my ancestors by the British, and their flight to the US where they were mistreated for a few generations.

[Rabeet]

Originally Posted by robrides85

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radi...-apple-factory

I'll be listening to this today. Thanks.

The wife is reading a book about the life of a young woman who works in one of those factories. Ugh.

[WileyLogHomes]

I heard the american life story when it aired on npr, was very thought provoking, and apparently the managements answer to the amount of suicides they have been having is to install catch nets around the factory. Also from the story, they employ 450,000 at one single factory. hard to wrap your mind around the scale of that.

[Rabeet]

Very hard. And the way I think economies tend to work, we are asking our people to balance with that standard of living.

[Lickety Split]

Originally Posted by WileyLogHomes

I heard the american life story when it aired on npr, was very thought provoking, and apparently the managements answer to the amount of suicides they have been having is to install catch nets around the factory. Also from the story, they employ 450,000 at one single factory. hard to wrap your mind around the scale of that.

I have seen them myself. In one building, the catch nets were in the stair wells (in the middle part where you can look all the way down) to prevent people from jumping there. The space to fall through was only about 2 feet wide. All I could imagine is falling and hitting your head all the way down until you reached the bottom. It must be bad if they are willing to jump there.

[jredford]

450,000 people in ONE factory. Really?

[Blind Spot]

Originally Posted by bigdave43

That's why I buy AMD cpu's. Besides, they don't rip you off with their prices like Intel.

As someone who's spec'ed and built several thousand machines....

Ah, why bother.