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Old 09-18-2003, 11:15 AM   #1
mark836
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Home Invader Killed

can someone again explain why we shouldn't be allowed to have guns in our homes for self defense?

2 more reasons to have them and know how to use them:

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Home invasion ends in death

Intruder shot three times continued struggling with homeowner as wife, two children hid


THE ASSOCIATED PRESS


GARDNERVILLE -- A man who shot and killed a convicted killer who forced his way into his Gardnerville home said the late-night intrusion was like a horror movie.

Charles Cryderman told police investigators that Walter Hetrick, who spent nearly 20 years in and out of California psychiatric hospitals, continued crawling down a hallway toward his children's bedroom after being shot three times, the Reno Gazette-Journal reported.

Cryderman, a Douglas County businessman, told investigators the incident was like the movie "Friday the 13th" or "Jack Nicholson in 'The Shining.' "

Cryderman, 52, said he was watching television around 11:30 p.m. Aug. 2 when Hetrick, whom he had never met, showed up at his door looking for a woman named Stacy. Cryderman told him he had the wrong house.

According to police reports, the 6-foot-1, 230-pound Hetrick became angry, starting talking about rape and began pounding on the door.

As Cryderman got his Smith & Wesson .357 magnum revolver from a bedroom, the noise at the front door stopped.

Then Hetrick began banging on a side door, saw Cryderman was armed and yelled, "Put the gun down," the reports said.

Hetrick threw a brick against the door and kicked it open. Cryderman fired, and the door slammed shut. Hetrick kicked the door open twice more, and Cryderman fired one shot both times, the reports said.

The reports said Hetrick "finally lunged into the residence," and Cryderman fired twice more, using up the five rounds in the six-shot revolver.

As his wife and two children hid in a bathroom, Cryderman hit Hetrick three times, in the upper torso, the thigh and in the foot.

But Hetrick, 40, still kept moving through the home, so Cryderman got his unloaded shotgun that was still in a case and began beating Hetrick with it, the report said.

Hetrick grabbed the shotgun at one point and the two struggled over it, but Cryderman got it back and continued hitting him, even after the case came open and the shotgun game apart, the reports said.

At one point the homeowner pleaded with Hetrick to "stay there," the reports said.

Sheriff's deputies swarmed the home moments later. Hetrick, of Antioch, Calif., was handcuffed and taken to a hospital, where he died of a severed artery from the gunshot wound in his thigh.

Investigators said Hetrick's mother and an aunt in Antioch showed detectives seven bottles of prescription drugs that Hetrick had stopped taking.

His mother described him as dangerous to himself and others when he wasn't taking medication.

Hetrick was found guilty in the shooting death of his best friend in Antioch in October 1984 and sentenced the following March to 27 years to life in prison, authorities said.

He initially was sentenced to Atascadero State Hospital but also spent time at other state hospitals and was deemed insane under California law.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From the 9/18 edition of the Las Vegas Review-Journal:

Man fleeing police killed by neighbor after fall from attic

By JULIET V. CASEY
REVIEW-JOURNAL


A woman shot and killed her next-door neighbor when he fell through her apartment ceiling earlier this week during an attempt to elude police.

The same man, 31-year-old Felipe Starks, was suspected of burglarizing the woman's apartment in April, but had not been charged in the case, police said Wednesday. Starks, wanted in connection with other burglaries and for a parole violation, climbed into the attic crawl space to escape the plainclothes officers at his door.

He then fell through his neighbor's ceiling when the crawl space gave way beneath his weight.

The woman, a single mother of three, had just stepped out of the shower when Starks crashed through her ceiling about 4 p.m. Tuesday.

Police said the woman, whose name was withheld, feared for her life, so she grabbed a gun and shot at Starks several times. She had purchased the gun after encountering Starks in April burglarizing her apartment at Bill Rayson Manor on North Sandhill Road near Owens Avenue.

"After that fearful night in April, she purchased the gun," said Las Vegas homicide Lt. Tom Monahan. "The gun was kept in the bedroom."

Monahan said the woman's children were not home during Tuesday's shooting, but had been home with her during the April burglary.

After the woman shot Starks, he fled her apartment and ran to his own apartment next door, where police took him into custody. Starks was taken to University Medical Center where he died.

"If a man fell through the ceiling right after you're getting out of the shower -- I'm told she had just finished drying off -- I think it's reasonable that you be terrified," Monahan said.

"We have concluded (the woman) had a reasonable cause to fear for her life and reasonably used deadly force. We don't anticipate any criminal charges will be filed."

Monahan said police would submit a report to the Clark County district attorney, and would not release the woman's name unless the district attorney found her criminally responsible for the death.

But Starks' wife, Leolar Thomas, said her husband didn't deserve to die.

"He was running from police," she said. "He wasn't burglarizing her. He wasn't going to hurt her. He didn't want to go to jail."

Thomas described her husband as a loving father. She said he had one 9-year-old son, four stepchildren and one grandchild. Thomas said her husband's problems with police had nothing to do with burglary.

"He had unpaid traffic tickets," she said. Thomas also said police prevented her from helping her husband, who was shot in the neck.

"I think they handled it wrong," said Thomas. "When he came back in he was bleeding, and I put my hand on his neck to stop the bleeding. Police put a gun to my head and told me to drop him."

Monahan said he understood Thomas' grief, but that "pressure on a wound like that would not have saved his life."

Thomas said she and Starks were married on Valentine's Day two years ago. As she spoke from the front stoop of the couple's two-story apartment, she flipped through photos, some showing Starks with his mother, some with him in a dark suit ready for a friend's wedding and others of Thomas with her husband on their wedding day.

Before he died, Thomas said Starks had just enough time to tell her that he loved her.

Several residents at the apartment complex said there had been a rash of burglaries at the complex, and that the area long has been plagued by violence. Many apartments at the aging complex have bars or wooden planks across the windows as makeshift security systems.

"There's always a lot of drama over here," said Felisha Ward, 24, who lives in a building across from Starks'. "There's a lot of random violence."

Ward said she and Starks, who also went by "Flip," were friends who often had beers together.

"A lot of people in these apartments have been robbed," said Miriam Camarena, 43, who lives next door to Starks and Thomas. "There also have been a lot of shootings around here. I just try not to get involved. I'm really afraid, but I can't leave here. I don't have the money to move."

Camarena, who lives with her 14-year-old son, said she felt mixed emotions when she heard her neighbor two doors down shot an intruder.

"It's sad because it's a human life," she said. "But if it were me, I either would have died from fright, or hit him with whatever I could find."

Raetee Freman, 21, said the shooting didn't come as a shock to her.

"I probably would've done the same thing," said Freman, who has lived at the complex two years. "She didn't know if he was going to hurt her."

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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Old 09-18-2003, 11:27 AM   #2
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The reports said Hetrick "finally lunged into the residence," and Cryderman fired twice more, using up the five rounds in the six-shot revolver.
Wonder why he only had 5 of 6 rounds.....or didn't use the 6th? That would have been much better than clubbing that piece of crap with an empty shotgun.
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Old 09-18-2003, 11:41 AM   #3
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I don't have any guns what with being in Canada but isn't it normal to keep an empty chamber under the hammer on a revolver for safety reasons? Thought I heard that somewhere.

There's a long thread on another discussin board I frequent about a thief dying on a stolen bike. Lots of folks said "great" and some said "he didn't deserve to die". At least one reply came from a guy that had done some thefts and other crimes in his past and had gone straight. That certainly added to the soup.

I kind of see both sides of the aurguments but frankly our society has become so tolerant of violence and theft when there is just no need for it that I now see it as poetic justice when a criminal dies or is injured in the commision of a crime. They are no better than the common playground bully and frankly I would not ever shed a tear for anyone like these two or that bike thief.
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Old 09-18-2003, 11:54 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by mark836
can someone again explain why we shouldn't be allowed to have guns in our homes for self defense?
I had a liberal tell me that he couldn't see how I could keep from using my gun. He went on to explain that he would have shot several people if he would have had a weapon. If you can't trust yourself to act responsibly then you probably don't trust anyone else to either.

RR, he probably only loads 5 rounds to either not have a bullet under the firing pin in case it's dropped on the hammer, or to have an empty cylinder for the pin to fall on in case the trigger is pulled. I used to do this before I bought my bedside and car safes, the only good thing to come out of California gun control laws.
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Old 09-18-2003, 12:17 PM   #5
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regarding the first story, i say good riddens. i would have done the same thing (except there would have been no need to beat him with the shotgun by the time i was done with the pistol). somebody comes into my home and tries to cause such harm to my family, they're going down, and i'll use whatever force is necessary to accomplish the task... especially if he's talking about rape, and crawling down the hall towards my kids. regarding the second story, its a little tougher to reach a verdict on that one, but why the heck would the guy be trying to run from the cops over parking tickets (like his wife alluded to).
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Old 09-18-2003, 12:23 PM   #6
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Originally posted by BCRider
I don't have any guns what with being in Canada
I know it's not relevant to the thread, but I can't resist pointing out that the PERCENTAGE of people who own a firearm in Canda is almost the same as the US (approx 70%.) The total number of guns in Canada is much lower, but so is the total population. Just thought you should know....
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Old 09-18-2003, 12:35 PM   #7
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Fizzy, if I were Canadian I wouldn't admit to gun ownership on a message board. I'm sure BC is awaiting his registration paperwork so that he can legally own one.
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Old 09-18-2003, 12:41 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by GaBulldawg

RR, he probably only loads 5 rounds to either not have a bullet under the firing pin in case it's dropped on the hammer, or to have an empty cylinder for the pin to fall on in case the trigger is pulled. I used to do this before I bought my bedside and car safes, the only good thing to come out of California gun control laws.

Ahhh.... I have never owned a revolver. Lots of semi's in the family...but not many revolvers. My dad has a snub nosed .38 special, but I only get to fire it at a range. What you and BCrider said makes sense.
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Old 09-18-2003, 01:36 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fizzyhawk
I know it's not relevant to the thread, but I can't resist pointing out that the PERCENTAGE of people who own a firearm in Canda is almost the same as the US (approx 70%.) The total number of guns in Canada is much lower, but so is the total population. Just thought you should know....
I don't know where you got that number but out of the couple of hundred folks I know up here only about 10 of them have firearms of any sort. Perhaps I hang out with the "better (?)" crowd but over the years that 5 to 7% seems to have held constant.

Now if you count my Czech/Polish?Tiawanese (?) air pistol that won't put a pellet through a pop can as a firearm then I guess I'm part of the group....
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Old 09-18-2003, 02:16 PM   #10
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There's a lot of information on the web about it, since the recent law changes in Canada have brought attention to it, but here's one site from a non-profit firm that report numbers that support the gun ownership per capita number I threw out:

http://www.rkba.org/comment/brown/canada.html

Not sure why you think people who do NOT own guns are "better?"
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Old 09-18-2003, 02:33 PM   #11
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Shoulda' had a semi-auto...I would like to see the bastard crawl toward my kids/wife with a belly full of .45cal holes. Only sad part of the story is the guy busted up his shotgun beating the scumbag with it. Too bad he didn't have a bat, or golf club to tee off on him.
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Old 09-18-2003, 05:19 PM   #12
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FizzyHawk is correct about the numbers. There are 7,000,000 registered guns in Canada out of a population of 10,000,000.
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Old 09-18-2003, 06:18 PM   #13
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Hey Liquid Ag

A .357 and a .45 have about the same impact
energy and do about the same damage.

The only advantage would be the number of
cartridges they hold and ease of reloading if
you keep full magazines handy.
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Last edited by LiquidSilver; 09-18-2003 at 06:19 PM.
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Old 09-18-2003, 07:43 PM   #14
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No arguement on .357 vs .45, it's just that I don't own a .357, so anyone coming through my door will have to settle for the .45.
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Old 09-18-2003, 08:32 PM   #15
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A friend of mine that I went through the police academy with, shot and killed an intruder about 5 months ago. The intruder was the suspect in about 20 home invasions in and around memphis and its suburbs. The police even warned the suspect on the news that his luck would run out, and that he would enter the wrong house or get caught. My friend said that he encountered the suspect in his kitchen where a violent fight broke out. My friend (who is 6'5'' and about 300lbs) said the guy was so sweaty and slippery that he couldnt get the guy under control, and was tireing from the fight.........so, he retreated to the bedroom and got his service weapon and shot the guy 8 times. If he did not have a gun in the house, who knows how it would have played out?


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Old 09-18-2003, 08:42 PM   #16
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It's too bad he didn't have that sixth round. One more shot to the back of the head woulda done it. As it is, he ruined a perfectly good shotgun.
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Old 09-18-2003, 09:33 PM   #17
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The first story points out the need for good "shot placement", no matter what type of firearm you are using.
Three "properly placed" .357 rounds should quickly kill any man I have ever seen walking on this earth !
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Old 09-18-2003, 09:52 PM   #18
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[quote]Originally posted by hammer
[b]The first story points out the need for good "shot placement", no matter what type of firearm you are using.


Very good point Hammer. Training will tell you, you shouldn't need more than 2 rounds.
With the gun locks and safes available today, any "responsible" human being can safely own a gun. I consider it my responsibility to protect my family and I WILL DO what I have to. Hell, my wife has been to the range and she can charge a round with confidence.
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Old 09-19-2003, 01:00 AM   #19
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You guys are spot-on regarding the one empty chamber. A lot of the S&W revolvers still have the firing pin integral to the hammer; visible as a pointed thingy on the hammer when it's cocked. When the hammer's uncocked, the pin would be resting on the primer, if a round was present... Highly advisable not to do that.

Newer designs have a "transfer bar" which requires the trigger to be fully pulled back for the hammer to push the (separate) firing pin into the primer. It's not necessary to leave an empty chamber on these.

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Old 09-19-2003, 06:48 AM   #20
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This liberal keeps a Springfield XD-40 at the ready for such intrusions. 400 more rounds of practice with my Browning .22 and 100 rounds through the .40 pulled my freestanding, ~1 shot per second, 25yd group down to a 6 inch circle last weekend.

Just because I don't like the idea of a church-state, think gays can get hitched, or think that full scale conventional conflict against an unconventional enemy is a bad idea doesn't mean I'm above protecting myself and loved ones with lethal force.
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