I've got a skippy in 2nd gear

fizzyrider · 05-26-2010, 07:15 AM

For about a month or two, I've been noticing this tendency for a "skip" while under hard acceleration. It happens only in 2nd gear, toward the upper reaches of the rev range.

By "skip", think of a broken tooth on a sprocket. Like the chain misses a tooth. Very brief, and it does it only one time, but that may be to me backing off the throttle a bit when it happens.

It does not happen at all during just normal to moderately hard acceleration. And again, it happens only in second gear.

I did think it may have been related to a worn out chain and sprockets, but I replaced them this past weekend. Chain and both sprockets are brand new.

Took it out for a ride last night, and it is still doing it. I think there might be an issue with one of the clutch plates.... maybe?

Any ideas?

FUP · 05-26-2010, 07:24 AM

Bent shift fork/worn gear dogs

Falcon 269 · 05-26-2010, 07:28 AM

Worn gear dogs on the 2nd/6th gear pairing. Sorry but it's not unknown and the symptoms you describe are classic.

RavenRider · 05-26-2010, 07:39 AM

DUDE,

You're not going to like this one at all.

The shift dogs for the second gear cluster have been worn down and it is trying (and often succeeding) in jumping out of gear with a studder as it comes back into gear.

Life expectancy of that gear cluster is shortened everytime it jumps out and back in.

You have basically two options. Tear it down and rebuild the tranny (as in split the cases, two new gears and at least one shift fork), or a replacement motor from a part out on this board or e-bay.

I know of at least four members on the board that replaced their motors with good results.
I have performed the rebuild task twice. Takes a bit of work but the end results were very good. I went through both engines and did a few minor tweaks at the same time which improved the over-all engine performance of the finished project.

Cost of parts depends on what else you decide to replace or freshen up. Typically about $500 - $800 with new rings, mains, valve guide seals and required gears and shift forks.

The time spent is usually the bigger issue, making an e-bay motor replacement more enviting.

Good Luck.

fizzyrider · 05-26-2010, 07:42 AM

Oy.

Thanks guys.

When do I have to start worrying about riding it? I'm going to the rally next week. Hopefully.

FZ#1 · 05-26-2010, 07:49 AM

mine went for a couple years like that. it was cheaper to replace the whole engine than get the dealership just to tear it down and find the problem

canblue · 05-26-2010, 07:56 AM

I believe there is a full step by step write up on the R1 forum for the 98-01's that have the same motor (basically).

Steve

RavenRider · 05-26-2010, 08:02 AM

Fizz,

Just be gentle on her in second and get into 3rd as soon as possible.
It'll go for a long time if you don't hammer second.

fizzyrider · 05-26-2010, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RavenRider

Fizz,

Just be gentle on her in second and get into 3rd as soon as possible.
It'll go for a long time if you don't hammer second.

Thanks, that buys me some time and makes me feel lots better. Really.

At least I don't have to address it today and I can start planning and saving up.

So, assuming I'm foolhardy enough to take on this project myself (not really interested in swapping out motors), how many hours am I looking at and what special tools will I need, if any?

stoler · 05-26-2010, 08:35 AM

This sucks Fizzy!

How many miles do you have on it, what yr?

Raven,
Has there been any relation to mileage/yr model to this problem that you have noticed? Or is it just people thrashing 2nd gear?

Thanks in advance!!

Scott

fizzyrider · 05-26-2010, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stoler

This sucks Fizzy!

How many miles do you have on it, what yr?

Just shy of 80K miles. It's an '01. I bought it in April '02 with 3120 miles on it.

Lots of track days, though. And clutchless shifting!

rswebscan · 05-26-2010, 08:39 AM

Darn, sorry to hear about that.....

photohawk · 05-26-2010, 08:51 AM

I had the same problem with my 84' FJ1100. I just skipped second gear for about 5 years with no problem until one day, pulling away from a red light while turning, it locked up and pitched me over the high side. Mine was a lot worse though, if you hit second it wouldn't pull at all, just slip and make that gut wrenching sound. Turns out a shift fork had broken. To this day I'm not sure if it was directly related to the worn dogs in second or not. IMO you should be fine for a while, just don't try to push it as far as I did.

fizzyrider · 05-26-2010, 08:54 AM

Hmm... I guess this
pretty much rules out
putting it up for
sale on this board...

I'm laughing so I don't cry.

fz1pone · 05-26-2010, 09:03 AM

don't worry, dude. it ain't likely to puke on you right now. just go enjoy the rally and worry about it when you get home.

i have a spare engine that's just taking up space in the garage. of course, you live in fla....

anyway, worry about it later.

diehli · 05-26-2010, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fizzyrider

And clutchless shifting!

Yep.

outlawyer · 05-26-2010, 11:08 AM

Yep. Clutchless shifting takes another one down.

arkie6 · 05-26-2010, 11:12 AM

Been there, done that. If you have any questions or need any photos, just ask.

ScottyJFZ1 · 05-26-2010, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fizzyrider

Just shy of 80K miles. It's an '01. I bought it in April '02 with 3120 miles on it.

Lots of track days, though. And clutchless shifting!

as i suspected....I do think that over time the clutchless shifting can assist in this happening sooner rather than later...

BUT heck 80k miles....thats awesome....see you at the rally

motoed · 05-26-2010, 11:33 AM

Ravenrider spoke.
Sure miss that guy.
Best with your bike.

05-26-2010, 07:28 AM	#3
Falcon 269 Just passing through Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Over the hill and far away Posts: 7,578	Worn gear dogs on the 2nd/6th gear pairing. Sorry but it's not unknown and the symptoms you describe are classic. __________________ If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools

05-26-2010, 07:39 AM	#4
RavenRider Old But Not Slow Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Hastings,MN Posts: 7,926	DUDE, You're not going to like this one at all. The shift dogs for the second gear cluster have been worn down and it is trying (and often succeeding) in jumping out of gear with a studder as it comes back into gear. Life expectancy of that gear cluster is shortened everytime it jumps out and back in. You have basically two options. Tear it down and rebuild the tranny (as in split the cases, two new gears and at least one shift fork), or a replacement motor from a part out on this board or e-bay. I know of at least four members on the board that replaced their motors with good results. I have performed the rebuild task twice. Takes a bit of work but the end results were very good. I went through both engines and did a few minor tweaks at the same time which improved the over-all engine performance of the finished project. Cost of parts depends on what else you decide to replace or freshen up. Typically about $500 - $800 with new rings, mains, valve guide seals and required gears and shift forks. The time spent is usually the bigger issue, making an e-bay motor replacement more enviting. Good Luck. __________________ Glenn Ride,Ride Like the Wind Before I Get Old Integrity Suspension/Midnight Motorcyle (Full Service Center) Traxxion Dynamics Installation & Service - Minnesota 651-304-7286

05-26-2010, 07:49 AM	#6
FZ#1 Callahan Auto Parts Dist. Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: North East Florida...it sucks!!! Posts: 794	mine went for a couple years like that. it was cheaper to replace the whole engine than get the dealership just to tear it down and find the problem __________________

05-26-2010, 08:02 AM	#8
RavenRider Old But Not Slow Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Hastings,MN Posts: 7,926	Fizz, Just be gentle on her in second and get into 3rd as soon as possible. It'll go for a long time if you don't hammer second. __________________ Glenn Ride,Ride Like the Wind Before I Get Old Integrity Suspension/Midnight Motorcyle (Full Service Center) Traxxion Dynamics Installation & Service - Minnesota 651-304-7286

05-26-2010, 08:35 AM	#10
stoler Registered User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Midlothian, TX Posts: 270	This sucks Fizzy! How many miles do you have on it, what yr? Raven, Has there been any relation to mileage/yr model to this problem that you have noticed? Or is it just people thrashing 2nd gear? Thanks in advance!! Scott __________________ Stoler

05-26-2010, 07:15 AM	#1
fizzyrider Too stupid to know better Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 1,032,060	I've got a skippy in 2nd gear For about a month or two, I've been noticing this tendency for a "skip" while under hard acceleration. It happens only in 2nd gear, toward the upper reaches of the rev range. By "skip", think of a broken tooth on a sprocket. Like the chain misses a tooth. Very brief, and it does it only one time, but that may be to me backing off the throttle a bit when it happens. It does not happen at all during just normal to moderately hard acceleration. And again, it happens only in second gear. I did think it may have been related to a worn out chain and sprockets, but I replaced them this past weekend. Chain and both sprockets are brand new. Took it out for a ride last night, and it is still doing it. I think there might be an issue with one of the clutch plates.... maybe? Any ideas? __________________ "What I had, I spent. What I kept, I lost. But what I gave away is mine forever." - Some Loser

05-26-2010, 07:24 AM	#2
FUP Registered User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 4,005	Bent shift fork/worn gear dogs

05-26-2010, 07:42 AM	#5
fizzyrider Too stupid to know better Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 1,032,060	Oy. Thanks guys. When do I have to start worrying about riding it? I'm going to the rally next week. Hopefully.

05-26-2010, 07:56 AM	#7
canblue Monster Hooligan Elite Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Winnipeg, Canada Posts: 2,506	I believe there is a full step by step write up on the R1 forum for the 98-01's that have the same motor (basically). Steve

05-26-2010, 08:39 AM	#12
rswebscan Nada Como El Sol Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: West Des Moines, Iowa Posts: 20,417	Darn, sorry to hear about that..... __________________ Why are we here? Because we're here....Roll the bones

05-26-2010, 08:51 AM	#13
photohawk Subduction leads to orogeny! Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Acme WA Posts: 2,805	I had the same problem with my 84' FJ1100. I just skipped second gear for about 5 years with no problem until one day, pulling away from a red light while turning, it locked up and pitched me over the high side. Mine was a lot worse though, if you hit second it wouldn't pull at all, just slip and make that gut wrenching sound. Turns out a shift fork had broken. To this day I'm not sure if it was directly related to the worn dogs in second or not. IMO you should be fine for a while, just don't try to push it as far as I did. __________________ "If you aren't living on the edge you're taking up too much space". Jim Whittaker Check out my first RR: http://www.yamahafz1oa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=95331

05-26-2010, 08:54 AM	#14
fizzyrider Too stupid to know better Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 1,032,060	Hmm... I guess this pretty much rules out putting it up for sale on this board... I'm laughing so I don't cry. __________________ "What I had, I spent. What I kept, I lost. But what I gave away is mine forever." - Some Loser

05-26-2010, 09:03 AM	#15
fz1pone sucks at riding motorcycles Join Date: May 2003 Location: NY Posts: 20,045	don't worry, dude. it ain't likely to puke on you right now. just go enjoy the rally and worry about it when you get home. i have a spare engine that's just taking up space in the garage. of course, you live in fla.... anyway, worry about it later.

05-26-2010, 11:08 AM	#17
outlawyer 2009 Bill Buckley Award Winner Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 12,679	Yep. Clutchless shifting takes another one down. __________________ "Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day; set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life" -Terry Pratchett[b] Outlawyer, as usual, has it exactly right.-Honorable Pat Glenn

05-26-2010, 11:12 AM	#18
arkie6 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Russellville, AR Posts: 4,322	Been there, done that. If you have any questions or need any photos, just ask.

05-26-2010, 11:33 AM	#20
motoed Fully Retarded Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: LA - lower Arkansas Posts: 5,768	Ravenrider spoke. Sure miss that guy. Best with your bike. __________________ MotoEd When I grow up, I want to be like LG. I miss my Flopper Dog. To All Those Who Suffer and are Ignored and Mocked. That Damn Eddie. We're having some fun now.

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