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Go Back   FZ1OA Message Board > FZ1 & Fazer Owners Association > Exhausts, Carburetion & Performance > Gen 1 Exhausts, Carburetion & Performance

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Old Yesterday, 07:44 AM   #161
rdcusmc
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THAT is super interesting. I would love to have the carb discussion!!

Best,
Ron
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2003 Blue FZ1 - Ivan's Jet kit, ignition advancer, Akrapovic, GOEC w/remote and GPS, 07 R1 fork conversion w/6 pot brakes, R1 master cylinder, R1 rear wheel w/R6 caliper, Penske shock, Dirt Road seat, AIS removed, HID and LED lights, full Givi, Galfer lines, chain oiler, Rizoma bar, cat-eye turn signals above headlights, grip heaters, factory lower fairings.
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Old Yesterday, 09:04 AM   #162
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Well, after a lot of posts, phone calls, etc... decisions are in. I've placed my order for a Cometic gasket at .018 thickness and will tune the cams to 108/100. I've placed the order for adjustable cam sprockets already. When I take the head off, will do general cleanup, some smoothing on the exhaust ports, port the boots, probably 3 or 5 angle valve job, deburr cam buckets, etc... Will use Honda shims as suggested for closest possible consistency/accuracy on valve clearances.

Rereading the posts, it seems I may not need the new cam sprockets or am I wrong? Stock config is 106/102 and moving to standard R1 gasket of .0232 thickness gets you to 108/100 roughly. The reduction of .0052 thickness of the head gasket I ordered would move the cam timing to a fraction over 108/under 100 without changing the sprockets if I've got it right.

Thoughts? Can someone opine on the math?

Best,
Ron
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2003 Blue FZ1 - Ivan's Jet kit, ignition advancer, Akrapovic, GOEC w/remote and GPS, 07 R1 fork conversion w/6 pot brakes, R1 master cylinder, R1 rear wheel w/R6 caliper, Penske shock, Dirt Road seat, AIS removed, HID and LED lights, full Givi, Galfer lines, chain oiler, Rizoma bar, cat-eye turn signals above headlights, grip heaters, factory lower fairings.
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Old Yesterday, 11:40 AM   #163
Ivan
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You need the sprockets... With a worn cam chain, and guides, and a thinner gasket, you must degree the cams.

There is no way to deduce where they will be set at.

If there were casting imperfections when your particular head was cast, then there could have been a few thou of extra milling that the factory did when it came out of the mold.

Degreeing cams isn't the easiest thing to do, but it is a basic, necessary step if you want to guarantee a good result of your hard work.


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Old Yesterday, 11:53 AM   #164
Ivan
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EXUP out of adjustment threads:

http://www.yamahafz1oa.com/forum/sho...djustment+dyno


http://www.yamahafz1oa.com/forum/sho...djustment+dyno

I knew this was covered before... lots of good info over the years on this forum.


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Old Yesterday, 05:51 PM   #165
longeze
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan View Post
EXUP out of adjustment threads:
Serendipity LoL! Harry just mentioned it as well - here:

http://www.yamahafz1oa.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=144596

Quote:
Originally Posted by fermic37 View Post
Do you have any plans to test your theories (facts as you know them) on a dyno? Or just plan on using your butt dyno? All of this tinkering can have a placebo effect..or illusion of power as posted above
Also to Quisps' point: That's the problem with seat of the pants dyno testing for sure. I tried to make fun of that very phenomena when I went out to test my resonator and mentioned that it felt like having 5 sticks of dynamite strapped to my butt and how incredibly fast the bike is now that I made that change etc ) Dry humor/sarcasm really doesn't play very well in a text box I guess..but I can't help trying.

More directly to your question though, I've been using a simple data logger on a long, newly paved very flat straight road to build a sample population and use them to make relative evaluations by running up from ~2700RPM to redline in 3rd gear on fairly calm days. I try to make at least 2 runs(1 in each direction) to account for any unintended effects of wind or inclination. I've found the device to be extremely consistent. It computes & displays HP&TQ using input parameters along with tach sensing, an accelerometer and a wheel sensor. It also allows the data to be downloaded to my computer to be exported to analysis software - which I also use. In a related link, I posted a sample graph or 2 of my bikes performance taken shortly after I first mounted the device. For now, I have to keep track of environmental parameters manually, to normalize the data. As said, I look forward to an opportunity to "calibrate" the device with a few runs on a Dynojet to compare.

Since I didn't have that datalogger when I 1st got my bike, I can't really "prove" any performance gain over stock configuration at all, -at this point in time. If you're asking if I hold myself to the same standard of proof as everyone else, then the answer is yes - absolutely. That's why I titled the thread Facts...as I know them. Much of what I write here is unsubstantiated(by me). If you're curious, I can tell you that while doing roll ons with other R1's & Fz1's on a group ride, with a passenger and 17-44 sprockets, I had to ease off the throttle to keep from overrunning the guy(riding a modded Gen1) ahead - repeatedly. Once past 7k or so and Eddie would close on him like crazy. I can also tell you that no one pulled me down the straight at a trackday either. Full disclosure: There were only a half dozen or so bikes of 1000cc or more - but they were all newer..lots of other track bikes as well ;)

It's all proves nothing other than to indicate that it's somewhat unlikely that my bike is any worse for the changes I made..at least in terms of straight line performance. As to personal bias and all that, I've been doing this stuff for a long long time. BS doesn't get it on the track. I like to think I've been objective over the years about the performance work I've done both the good and the bad. To me, the work I've done on my gen1 is pretty minor really. It's akin to what I'd do in the normal course of things BEFORE I started looking for a competitive advantage from a race engine, since everyone else who was at all competitive, was doing all this same stuff to their engines too ) The possible exception was some of the unusual port work I did to this head. I think I've fawned over my perceived performance increases on my Gen1 enough in this thread to last a lifetime already, so I'll spare u any further gushing(for now) ;) I should say though that the Gen1 is such a smooth engine, that it responded beautifully to increased compression. Probably the best thing I did to it. If I had to choose only 1 mod to make to the engine, that would be it. I don't think Ivans dyno graphs of the 13:1 pistons do it justice. There are some things that Dyno graphs just don't convey and the feel of this 4 cylinder engine with raised compression and a power band a mile wide is one of them. I'm at ~12.x:1 & I'm thinking of going after more.

Last edited by longeze; Yesterday at 07:30 PM.
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Old Yesterday, 07:49 PM   #166
longeze
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wizbyu View Post
... The carbs were CVC type , most people would use Mikuni smooth bores as they have and always have produce more HP and Torque, but I've never seen any one talk about those type carbs on a Gen 1 hear on the forms...
I couldn't find much either. IIRC, there were a few posts about flat slides either here or on the R1 forum though, but nothing I found very informative. I've read mixed reports about the utility of using flat slides on the street. People seem to agree that they're difficult to keep in tune and a bit "jumpy" off idle. More than a few have said they got substantial gains from them though(on other forums). Maybe guys keep tight to their vest with the information. If someone has run them back to back against CV's it would be great to know about. I used to run Mikuni and Lectron flat slides and always found more power there than with other carbs I tried, including Dellorto and other Mikunis. Probably a PITA to mount them to an FZ1 anyway.. and then there's the cost
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Old Yesterday, 09:44 PM   #167
Wizbyu
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Hay Ron just a little info on setting up your valve clearances , back in the day Rob Muzzy would set up the exhaust valve clearances to the loosest clearances , the reason he gave was that the longer the exhaust valve stayed on the valve seat the cooler they would run , he also said running tighter clearances made no noticeable HP gains. I always set mine up to the looser side of things intake and exhaust but thats because I"m a little lazy as in if there looser you can go longer between adjustment intervals. And as a side note I read that some engine tuners ( on the 4 valve heads ) set them up with 1 intake valve opening up sooner than the other so as to help control the intake charge start a swirl for better combustion , longeze whats your take on 1 valve opening sooner ?
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