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Go Back   FZ1OA Message Board > FZ1 & Fazer Owners Association > "Off Topic" Discussion

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Old 01-06-2019, 09:38 AM   #1
AndyW
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Forum for lawn tractor engines

The B&S 22hp V twin OHV engine in my 'deere lawn tractor has started to play up - it's hard to start but more importantly stalls under heavy loads that it would normally plough through.

Hasn't seen too many hours since a full "service" (plugs, oil, filters) a couple of years ago. It's probably ten years old at this point, but only been used to maintain about 1/2 acre of lawn during the Atlanta summer months.

Pretty sure it's just a valve adjustment based on similar experience on a Craftsman tractor many years ago.

So does anyone here know of a good forum for working on these engines, similar to the "quality" we have here for the FZ1?
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Old 01-06-2019, 10:15 AM   #2
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I've had some luck here https://www.tractorbynet.com and https://www.lawnmowerforum.com/forum...Stratton-Forum

Valve check definitely sounds in order.

Best,
Ron
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Old 01-06-2019, 10:39 AM   #3
Stella Blue
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I’m guessing it’s the carbon maker.
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Old 01-06-2019, 03:41 PM   #4
wotnnc
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When the 28 hp Kawasaki on my zero turn had that same symptom, a new fuel filter fixed it. Not hard to check, blow through it and see if it's restricted.
A valve check would be a good idea too.
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Old 01-06-2019, 05:27 PM   #5
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Like I said, new filters and plugs were installed not long ago.

That said, the rocker covers are right there and I have the specs, so a check and adjust will take no time. Dug out the tools this evening and will take a look tomorrow.
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Old 01-06-2019, 05:49 PM   #6
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Yea I saw that you said the "filters" were changed a couple of years ago. A lot of things can happen in two years.
You say it " stalls under heavy loads that it would normally plough through."
That's a classic symptom of running out of fuel. Doesn't take but a moment to check the fuel filter and while the line is off I might even check the fuel pressure because the fuel pump could be going bad.
How many hours are on this engine? A valve adjustment may very well be overdue.

I was under the impression that you started this thread asking for help but now realize you were just asking for information on a small engine forum and seems like you have your mind made up what the problem is anyway.
Sorry, I can't help with your forum question because I fix all my stuff myself.
Please disregard anything I've said, I should have never even replied to the thread.
I'm out---

Last edited by wotnnc; 01-06-2019 at 06:07 PM.
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Old 01-06-2019, 07:32 PM   #7
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I’m guessing it’s the carbon maker.
Are they noted for carboning up the exhaust, such as the muffler?
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Old 01-07-2019, 02:18 PM   #8
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I’m not familiar with the twins, but does it have a vacuum operated fuel pump? Would look something like this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Gas-Vacuum-...-/183046297354

Check it for vacuum leaks. That valve check might not be a bad idea.
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Old 01-07-2019, 02:40 PM   #9
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Are they noted for carboning up the exhaust, such as the muffler?
I have no idea. Carbon maker has been the term for carburetors since I was 12
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Old 01-07-2019, 06:49 PM   #10
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A couple years ago, my dad's mower ( with B&S v-twin engine ) started running on one cylinder. Pulled the valve covers, had mega-clearance on one valve. Upon closer inspection, the valve guide had slid down, holding the valve open. I thought about knurling the guide and re-installing, but the local repair guy said this is a common issue. Ended up buying a new head.
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Old 01-09-2019, 07:51 AM   #11
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I'd start with something simpler - pull the carb and give it an extensive cleaning, then add a new fuel filter. Check the air filter while you're at it.

A 10 year old lawn tractor engine shouldn't need valves worked on.
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Old 01-09-2019, 10:05 PM   #12
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I'd start with something simpler - pull the carb and give it an extensive cleaning, then add a new fuel filter. Check the air filter while you're at it.

A 10 year old lawn tractor engine shouldn't need valves worked on.
I disagree. I installed a 20 something HP B&S Vanguard engine in my Cub Cadet. The first year it ran great. The second year it was getting harder and harder to start. I pulled the valve cover adjusted the valves, and its run great ever since. The valve weren't that far out of adjustment, but it did make a difference.
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Old 06-01-2019, 06:47 PM   #13
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Discussion about zero-turns prompted me to update this thread, just in case someone else runs into a similar issue..

It ended up being the spark plugs. I had good spark, but the service kit I had installed a year earlier simply came with the wrong plugs - which had run the thing just fine most of last season!

I found a local old guy who comes out and fixes lawnmowers (but avoids tractors), based on phone conversation he said it had to be blockage in the carb. Told him I had no expectations, I'd pay him for his time. He spent a good amount of time on the carb but it was really clean. I had previously replaced the fuel pump and put in a new filter simply because those parts are cheap.

He pulled the plugs and they looked fine, but brushed them up, and it fired up immediately, and ran great for a few minutes, then we couldn't get it started again.

Next day I picked up correct plugs from home depot, and it's been running like a champ ever since. Who would have thought that functioning, but incorrect spark plugs could make that much of a difference.
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Old 06-02-2019, 04:48 AM   #14
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Next day I picked up correct plugs from home depot, and it's been running like a champ ever since. Who would have thought that functioning, but incorrect spark plugs could make that much of a difference.
Yeah that is strange that the plugs fit but didn't work. I know that one of the numbers on the plug represents heat of the plug so maybe that is it.

I was going to say the carb is the likely culprit since it seems starved of fuel. I would have wasted my time (again) taking that carb apart and cleaning it. Then again I would have put the correct plugs in the first time
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Old 06-02-2019, 05:32 AM   #15
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Check your fuel lines, the ethanol gas rots out the fuel lines fast. 2 years is plenty of time for them to rot.
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Old 06-02-2019, 07:20 AM   #16
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Check your fuel lines, the ethanol gas rots out the fuel lines fast. 2 years is plenty of time for them to rot.
ummm he fixed it already and it wasn't the fuel lines or carb. But thanks for coming out.
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Old 06-02-2019, 08:03 AM   #17
LiquidSilver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyW View Post
Discussion about zero-turns prompted me to update this thread, just in case someone else runs into a similar issue..

It ended up being the spark plugs. I had good spark, but the service kit I had installed a year earlier simply came with the wrong plugs - which had run the thing just fine most of last season!

I found a local old guy who comes out and fixes lawnmowers (but avoids tractors), based on phone conversation he said it had to be blockage in the carb. Told him I had no expectations, I'd pay him for his time. He spent a good amount of time on the carb but it was really clean. I had previously replaced the fuel pump and put in a new filter simply because those parts are cheap.

He pulled the plugs and they looked fine, but brushed them up, and it fired up immediately, and ran great for a few minutes, then we couldn't get it started again.

Next day I picked up correct plugs from home depot, and it's been running like a champ ever since. Who would have thought that functioning, but incorrect spark plugs could make that much of a difference.
I had a car with good looking plugs that wouldn't quite start. It was a Honda and they were autolite plugs. I thought I had still left the plugs out after the compression test. I went looking around the shop for the plugs that I already put back in. I found 4 nice looking NGK plugs and assumed they were the Honda plugs. Went to put them in and realized I already put the plugs back in. So I figured let me swap the plugs with these NGKs. Car started and ran great. Got new NGK plugs and put them in.
I think the brand new Engine Coolant sensor on the motor was the key. I think the original coolant sensor was bad and had fouled the plugs too many times leaving some conductivity inbeded in the porcelain, causing the plugs to be short lived.

However I noticed you said the guy brushed off the plugs. That's always a no no. A steel or brass brush will leave metal trace amounts on the porcelain. Sand blasting is the best way to clean plugs. Carb cleaner with a plastic brush is usually okay. Any minute amounts of either should burn off before carbon tracking.
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Old 06-02-2019, 10:20 AM   #18
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I had a car with good looking plugs that wouldn't quite start. It was a Honda and they were autolite plugs. I thought I had still left the plugs out after the compression test. I went looking around the shop for the plugs that I already put back in. I found 4 nice looking NGK plugs and assumed they were the Honda plugs. Went to put them in and realized I already put the plugs back in. So I figured let me swap the plugs with these NGKs. Car started and ran great. Got new NGK plugs and put them in.
I think the brand new Engine Coolant sensor on the motor was the key. I think the original coolant sensor was bad and had fouled the plugs too many times leaving some conductivity inbeded in the porcelain, causing the plugs to be short lived.

However I noticed you said the guy brushed off the plugs. That's always a no no. A steel or brass brush will leave metal trace amounts on the porcelain. Sand blasting is the best way to clean plugs. Carb cleaner with a plastic brush is usually okay. Any minute amounts of either should burn off before carbon tracking.
You really know your stuff don't you.
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Old 06-02-2019, 12:38 PM   #19
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Check your fuel lines, the ethanol gas rots out the fuel lines fast. 2 years is plenty of time for them to rot.
Yet my Gen I carbs haven't needed anything, all OEM since July of 02. Also, my 32 year old John Deer 175 Hydro has only needed the carb rebuilt once, about 15 years ago. I certainly do understand the issue with certain rubber blends and/or plastics and the effect of alcohol/ethanol on them, but it most definitely is not a universal application. Properly formulated rubber/plastic can easily survive gasahol.

On the flip side, my Poulan Wild Thing chain saw did need new fuel lines.....after 15 years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidSilver View Post
I had a car with good looking plugs that wouldn't quite start. It was a Honda and they were autolite plugs. I thought I had still left the plugs out after the compression test. I went looking around the shop for the plugs that I already put back in. I found 4 nice looking NGK plugs and assumed they were the Honda plugs. Went to put them in and realized I already put the plugs back in. So I figured let me swap the plugs with these NGKs. Car started and ran great. Got new NGK plugs and put them in.
I think the brand new Engine Coolant sensor on the motor was the key. I think the original coolant sensor was bad and had fouled the plugs too many times leaving some conductivity inbeded in the porcelain, causing the plugs to be short lived.

However I noticed you said the guy brushed off the plugs. That's always a no no. A steel or brass brush will leave metal trace amounts on the porcelain. Sand blasting is the best way to clean plugs. Carb cleaner with a plastic brush is usually okay. Any minute amounts of either should burn off before carbon tracking.
I had a '94 Camry with the 2.2 hemi engine. At the first tune-up I thought I'd upgrade to "Split Fire" plugs. Power and fuel mileage went down, and generally ran like crap. Went back to the proper NGK's all everything was right again. Using the proper plug is critical to peak operation.

As for cleaning plugs, who in the world uses, much less needs, an abrasive grit blaster for spark plugs anymore? I thought those things vaporized with the 20th century. Back in the day yeah, when the leaded gas and rich mixtures started fouling your V8 plugs after 10k and it was economical to clean them, sure. And agree, using a metallic brush was only good for temporary use, but was actually effective when you needed to get the lawn mowed now. Can't tell you how many times I brushed the plug and ran a strip of 400 grit paper through the points on my old Bobcat to easily do a days work.

But with 21st century materials and construction, I can't imagine cleaning plugs on a regular basis. Lawn mower, weed whacker, or chain saw, I would do it if needed, with a brush, just to get me through a task, especially if a new one wasn't 15 minutes away at the auto parts store. Otherwise, and this would be with any of my ICE's, I'll just get new plug(s). They are cheap, and typically last a long time (relative to that 1985 crap).

Do you actually use one?
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Old 06-02-2019, 02:19 PM   #20
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Do you actually use one?
I do!

I clean the 2 smoke dirt bikes spark plug before taking it out with a spark plug sandblaster that plugs onto a air compressor.

I use bel ray mc1, slightly on the rich side, and although it doesn’t smoke at all after warmup, it does leave a bit of carbon residue. So the plugs get cleaned every ride, and every year I de-carb the motor and replace the plug. Also carry a spare with me back in the woods.
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