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Go Back   FZ1OA Message Board > FZ1 & Fazer Owners Association > Service & Maintenance > Gen 1 Service & Maintenance

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Old 06-09-2019, 01:00 PM   #1
oldjeep
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EXUP fun

So, the weather isn't great today decided to take a look at the EXUP issue that someone pointed out from a picture where my tach was sitting at 7000.

Took the cover off and the pulley and sure enough the valve was stuck solid - couldn't be rotated with a wrench. Heated up the housing a few times and sprayed it with PB blaster. First bolt came right out and the other 2 snapped. So now I have the fun of trying to extract them. Tried the welding a nut trick on the one that snapped off with the bolt proud of the housing - no luck. Drilled them and snapped an extractor off in one - the other hole looks offcenter and nothing is working. The gate had to be pressed out of the plate, which buggered up the threaded end where the pully goes on.

Hoping I can either fix it or find a gate to replace it with. All in all a pretty crappy day.
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Old 06-09-2019, 01:56 PM   #2
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Is the tack going to 7K RPM a code for faulty EXUP ?
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Old 06-09-2019, 02:04 PM   #3
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Is the tack going to 7K RPM a code for faulty EXUP ?
Yes.
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Old 06-09-2019, 02:19 PM   #4
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Good, I've been getting that code for the past few days, I'll check the EXUP, its been a while since I lubricated it
Thanks
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Old 06-11-2019, 05:26 PM   #5
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After ruining numerous bits and extractors I finally got the damn things drilled out. Wound up drilling and tapping to 5/16 so that I can use some decent sized stainless hardware. The replacement gate hardware won't be here for a couple of days. Hope it isnt siezed as bad as mine was.
I'd like to talk to whoever thought this set up was a good idea and explain to them what a stud is.
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Old 06-11-2019, 08:25 PM   #6
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You appear to be a gearhead but for anyone else who reads this, I'll drop in the grommet method of removing rusted screws. Bolts - as you will.

Arrange them so that gravity works for you. Screw heads up, threads down. Plan ahead at least 3 days. Drop a few drops of Kroil or PB Blaster or even WD40 on each screw, 3X per day. When you get up, when you get home, and when you go to bed. Each time you put the drops on, put a box end wrench on the head and give it a light tap with another small tool, in the counter-clockwise direction. Just light taps. No torque. Dink dink dink, that's it. After at least 3 days, give it one medium to hard tap with a smallish hammer or other similarly weighted tool. Yes, I use a hammer on my wrenches. Some of them are older than you. They're tools. Don't kill it. The striking and the magic fluid are what breaks down the rust. Torque will just result in a twisted off screw head.

If it doesn't work the first go round, keep after it. No torque, just taps. Quick and sure, like karate. It's worked hundreds of times for me.
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Old 06-12-2019, 04:16 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grommet View Post
You appear to be a gearhead but for anyone else who reads this, I'll drop in the grommet method of removing rusted screws. Bolts - as you will.

Arrange them so that gravity works for you. Screw heads up, threads down. Plan ahead at least 3 days. Drop a few drops of Kroil or PB Blaster or even WD40 on each screw, 3X per day. When you get up, when you get home, and when you go to bed. Each time you put the drops on, put a box end wrench on the head and give it a light tap with another small tool, in the counter-clockwise direction. Just light taps. No torque. Dink dink dink, that's it. After at least 3 days, give it one medium to hard tap with a smallish hammer or other similarly weighted tool. Yes, I use a hammer on my wrenches. Some of them are older than you. They're tools. Don't kill it. The striking and the magic fluid are what breaks down the rust. Torque will just result in a twisted off screw head.

If it doesn't work the first go round, keep after it. No torque, just taps. Quick and sure, like karate. It's worked hundreds of times for me.
So, you seem to be suggesting removing the exhaust from the bike to do this job? Or laying the bike on its side

I guess I'd call myself a gearhead - or just someone who likes removing skin from their knuckles on a regular basis
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Old 06-12-2019, 04:07 PM   #8
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If you wrench much, investing in an oxy-acetylene setup is worth its weight in gold. Like most other things, technique is everything. As for your ex-up, I deleted mine & never looked back. I guess everyone needs a hobby ;) Nice jeep btw!
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Old 06-12-2019, 04:33 PM   #9
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Another trick is deep freezing the bolts to shrink and crack the rust bond. I used a modified Wart removing kit. Try warming up the area with a propane torch first.....warm...not real hot. Then freeze the bolt or stud to create the thermal shock needed.
Put it back together with high temp anti-seize compound.
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Old 06-12-2019, 04:37 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longeze View Post
If you wrench much, investing in an oxy-acetylene setup is worth its weight in gold. Like most other things, technique is everything. As for your ex-up, I deleted mine & never looked back. I guess everyone needs a hobby ;) Nice jeep btw!
Map torch, plasma and welder typically get it done
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Old 06-12-2019, 08:43 PM   #11
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Map torch, plasma and welder typically get it done
Really? Then how did you end up here:
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Originally Posted by oldjeep View Post
... Heated up the housing a few times and sprayed it with PB blaster. First bolt came right out and the other 2 snapped. So now I have the fun of trying to extract them. Tried the welding a nut trick.. - no luck. Drilled them and snapped an extractor off in one - the other hole looks offcenter and nothing is working... All in all a pretty crappy day.
It's like this.. You had multiple chances to remove those bolt fragments before you were forced to drill them out & make the holes oversized, compromising the integrity of the flange in the process. You wasted a ton of time needlessly frustrating yourself by making a bigger job of it than was necessary. If you tried to make your living this way, you'd go broke.

I'm making the effort to help you out, so you don't have to struggle the next time. But if Mapp gas or your patience with it was sufficient for the task, you wouldn't be posting that litany of woe. Pretending to have the tools and knowledge sufficient for the task at hand is what got you there to begin with. I own dental picks and a circular saw, but it doesn't make me a dentist or a carpenter.

Mechanics invest in oxy-acetylene equipment for a reason. If we could buy a cheap bottle of mapp gas to do the same job, we would. It typically doesn't transfer enough heat fast enough, especially in situations like yours where you need to heat a large section. If you leave the flame in contact with your material long enough, yeah, it "might" eventually get you there, but it's only ~1/2 as hot(literally) as an OA flame to begin with, and it's NOT the right tool for the job.
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Old 06-12-2019, 09:03 PM   #12
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Well, that was a bit over the top.
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Old 06-13-2019, 04:41 AM   #13
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Really? Then how did you end up here: It's like this.. You had multiple chances to remove those bolt fragments before you were forced to drill them out & make the holes oversized, compromising the integrity of the flange in the process. You wasted a ton of time needlessly frustrating yourself by making a bigger job of it than was necessary. If you tried to make your living this way, you'd go broke.

I'm making the effort to help you out, so you don't have to struggle the next time. But if Mapp gas or your patience with it was sufficient for the task, you wouldn't be posting that litany of woe. Pretending to have the tools and knowledge sufficient for the task at hand is what got you there to begin with. I own dental picks and a circular saw, but it doesn't make me a dentist or a carpenter.

Mechanics invest in oxy-acetylene equipment for a reason. If we could buy a cheap bottle of mapp gas to do the same job, we would. It typically doesn't transfer enough heat fast enough, especially in situations like yours where you need to heat a large section. If you leave the flame in contact with your material long enough, yeah, it "might" eventually get you there, but it's only ~1/2 as hot(literally) as an OA flame to begin with, and it's NOT the right tool for the job.
Deep breath. I'm not a mechanic, I do this for fun. It isn't an investment decision, OA stuff is cheap. I prefer not to have big bottles of flammable gas in my shop for the one time every few years I might need to use them. These are the first bolts I can think of in many years that I've broken off, some times you just lose.
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Old 06-13-2019, 04:49 AM   #14
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It has been a while since I worked on the EXUP, but I don't think were dealing with rust between the EXUP housing and those bolts. Stainless bolts in a stainless housing can result in galling of the threads. They literally weld together. No amount of penetrate or heat will break free galled stainless. This combined with stainless being softer than carbon steel can make for difficult if not impossible removal of the bolts short of drilling them out. This is also why it is important to use an intermediate metal based, i.e. nickel, high temperature anti-seize if and when you get the bolts removed to prevent the stainless galling in the future
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Old 06-13-2019, 06:01 AM   #15
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Not sure I'd use weaker stainless hardware in that EXUP housing. Maybe stick with high grade carbon steel and good application of the high temperature anti-seize. Do some internet research to help determine the correct torque based on fastener thread dimensions, materials of both sides involved, and type of lubrication on the threads.
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Old 06-13-2019, 06:17 AM   #16
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Not sure I'd use weaker stainless hardware in that EXUP housing. Maybe stick with high grade carbon steel and good application of the high temperature anti-seize. Do some internet research to help determine the correct torque based on fastener thread dimensions, materials of both sides involved, and type of lubrication on the threads.
The plan for mine is to use studs in the housing so that I don't have to care if they ever come out again. My junkyard header/EXUP bits are coming today and one of 2 things will happen. Either the EXUP stuff will be OK and I'll use it or I'll just cap the thing and eliminate the valve - which would leave it running like it has been since I bought it.
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Old 06-13-2019, 07:58 AM   #17
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Here's how mine went, definitely no fun.

http://www.yamahafz1oa.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=113106
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Old 06-13-2019, 10:03 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by oldjeep View Post
The plan for mine is to use studs in the housing so that I don't have to care if they ever come out again. My junkyard header/EXUP bits are coming today and one of 2 things will happen. Either the EXUP stuff will be OK and I'll use it or I'll just cap the thing and eliminate the valve - which would leave it running like it has been since I bought it.
Studs for the win. Hopefully you can get it back to a properly functional EXUP. It really makes the mostly stock bike perform well over the rpm range.
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Old 06-13-2019, 12:39 PM   #19
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Well, that was a bit over the top.
LoL, yeah, caught me on a bad day. You should've seen the unedited version ;) Apologies to OldJeep, no harm intended.

When you said:
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..I'm not a mechanic, I do this for fun.. I prefer not to have big bottles of flammable gas in my shop for the one time every few years I might need to use them. These are the first bolts I can think of in many years that I've broken off, some times you just lose.
I understand completely. My objective in posting isn't just to help you, but to provide some information to others about standard practice when dealing with problems such as yours - as well. Mapp gas isn't it. Neither is breaking 2 out of 3 fasteners on disassembly when using proper tools & techniques. Longboardr posted a good description of various tactics in his post. I think he could have saved himself a bit of trouble if he had applied more heat & patience to begin with as well though.

For those who may NOT be aware of it, there's a "sweet spot" for removal when heating seized/rusted fasteners. Provided you've applied sufficient heat to begin with, as the parts begin to cool & with constant adequate torque applied, there will come a point where the fasteners will break free and turn VERY easily... and then tighten up again. At that point you need to repeat the procedure as many times as necessary until the parts continue to rotate easily. Yes, sometimes initially, you need to rap on the parts with a punch or socket repeatedly while heating/cooling to help free the parts before you can begin disassembly.

The point is that if the parts won't unscrew easily, then you either need more/less heat, more impacts or more patience. More force is rarely the answer unless dealing with the removal of thick or large parts. Small fasteners such as used to hold the exup iin place, require very little force and have very short times to find the sweet spot, because they cool so rapidly. Because of that, they can be easily broken. There is a distinct difference in "feel" between a fastener that is free in the hole, a tight but workable cooling fastener and one that is twisting itself in two. If you learn the difference & pay attention, you can stop before you make things too hard for yourself. The smaller the fastener, the more sensitive and gentle you have to be to feel the difference, but it's there.

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Originally Posted by arkie6 View Post
It has been a while since I worked on the EXUP, but I don't think were dealing with rust between the EXUP housing and those bolts...
The bolts he's dealing with are steel as is the exup cover. Good advice on using anti-seize. Proper torque is also imperative.
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Old 06-13-2019, 03:04 PM   #20
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New junk header showed up with an un seized exup, so that was good. Same 2 bolts broke removing it from the junk header, but it doesn't matter since that piece is scrap. Now just need to drill the new cover for the larger studs. Should be back in business tonight.
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