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Go Back   FZ1OA Message Board > FZ1 & Fazer Owners Association > FZ1 Problems & Issues > Gen 2 Problems & Issues

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Old 02-11-2019, 02:39 PM   #41
MichaelFZ1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YamahaMan444 View Post
Would someone with a Gen 2 and multimeter mind disconnecting the 3 pin connector going into the R/R and test 2 of the leads with the bike running and revved and see what the AC v reads please
Measured with a fluke 75 multimeter

Between 23.5 and 25 volts at a cold high idle and 80 volts at 5k.

Sorry for the bad news.
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Old 02-11-2019, 02:44 PM   #42
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BINGO.

Hey it is what is it. We know what it is. I learned a lot.

And here’s a recent and pretty concise thread for anyone else who needs it

Big thanks to arkie and Grommet and Michael and for everyone else who contributed
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Old 02-11-2019, 03:07 PM   #43
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Big thanks to arkie and Grommet
I’ll second that, I’m a electrician and a lot of what they said was over my head when I read through it fast. But I tend to stray as far as possible from 12v as often as I can.

Definitely some knowledgeable folks on this board.
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Old 02-11-2019, 03:14 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by MichaelFZ1 View Post
Iíll second that, Iím a electrician and a lot of what they said was over my head when I read through it fast. But I tend to stray as far as possible from 12v as often as I can.

Definitely some knowledgeable folks on this board.
Same here, my low voltage knowledge is lacking at times. I was just checking up on this thread when I got home and it appears it's stator time. I learned a lot mucking around with that Aprilia.
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Old 02-11-2019, 09:46 PM   #45
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Dang it. I had a big response typed up and somehow lost it and its too late to type it up again.

The jist of it was that I would be cautious regarding the assumed accuracy of an el cheapo digital multi-meter when measuring AC voltage from a source that isn't true sinusoidal 60 Hz due to the way it is measuring and interpreting the signal (the AC is rectified and then scaled assuming the meter is looking at a true 60 Hz sine wave).

The fact that all of your readings on all three phases are balanced makes it hard to reconcile what failure mode could cause a low but balanced output across all leads. Assuming your measured output voltage is real, the only thing I could think of that could cause that would be a loss or reduction of flux from the permanent magnet rotor. We know these engines have issues with rotor magnets coming apart, but I would think you would be able to hear it if that was the case.
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Old 02-11-2019, 09:47 PM   #46
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Old 02-12-2019, 04:59 AM   #47
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Quote:
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Dang it. I had a big response typed up and somehow lost it and its too late to type it up again.

The jist of it was that I would be cautious regarding the assumed accuracy of an el cheapo digital multi-meter when measuring AC voltage from a source that isn't true sinusoidal 60 Hz due to the way it is measuring and interpreting the signal (the AC is rectified and then scaled assuming the meter is looking at a true 60 Hz sine wave).

The fact that all of your readings on all three phases are balanced makes it hard to reconcile what failure mode could cause a low but balanced output across all leads. Assuming your measured output voltage is real, the only thing I could think of that could cause that would be a loss or reduction of flux from the permanent magnet rotor. We know these engines have issues with rotor magnets coming apart, but I would think you would be able to hear it if that was the case.
That threw me as well.

If it was me Id try the new RR first before opening up the motor for the stator. Easy to do and easy to test.

Regulators pulling ~80V down to 12-15 are working hard. Yikes. RMS is less but still. As a system this doesn't quite add up to me, as in, why would they design it that way. There must be something about it I don't understand. An AC transformer would seem to make sense to get the voltage closer to the desired range to make the shunts in the regulator work less. Just rambling here . . .
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Old 02-12-2019, 06:39 AM   #48
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Guess when I drop off the bike (having other minor servicing done) , ill retry with my mechanics multimeter to confirm.
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Old 02-12-2019, 07:21 AM   #49
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I also doubt it's the stator - not only for the reasons mentioned above, but the R/R is only rated 40V..
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Old 02-12-2019, 07:41 AM   #50
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You might want to check the magnet on the end of your oil drain plug for the presence of magnets.
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Old 02-12-2019, 10:29 AM   #51
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I also doubt it's the stator - not only for the reasons mentioned above, but the R/R is only rated 40V..
So why is Michael getting 80V at 5K rpms with it disconnected from the R/R.
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Old 02-12-2019, 10:58 AM   #52
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http://yamahafz1oa.com/forum/showthr...+stator+output
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Old 02-12-2019, 11:35 AM   #53
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Quote:
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So why is Michael getting 80V at 5K rpms with it disconnected from the R/R.
Can't help there.. possibly just unloaded it puts out a lot more volts.

I just don't think anything posted here so far points to it being the issue 100%, and it's an expensive part to change "just in case".
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Old 02-12-2019, 11:45 AM   #54
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Right, unloaded it SHOULD be making that, according to what Iíve seen and Michael tested and my mechanic says as well.

Now we are all calling it the stator. But are we talking about the inner stator that has the coils and magnets (50$ used) or the outer rotor with the magnets thatís known to have the magnets come off/explode ($300-350$ new). Because itís two separate parts but the rotor assembly is called a stator assembly sometimes too.
In theory there could be a magnet issue on the inner stator and not the rotor assembly BUT since the magnets are exposed on the inside of the rotor, any coming loose of the stator magnets would wreck havoc on the inside of the rotor and the exposed magnets within I would think. My mechanic is very thorough. Heís charging me 1 hour to change out the inner stator portion. If he gets in there and sees damage to to rotor he will let me know. But to me it just doesnít make sense why my stator output to the pins is half of what everyone else, is testing and getting and saying at 5000 rpms.

Yes itís not ideal that itís this part, but if even itís not the whole issue, I mean there is something not right.
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Old 02-12-2019, 11:58 AM   #55
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In a different thread, people are talking about getting a new stator as insurance and trashing the old one. Maybe you can get someone to send you their old stator for shipping so you can confirm your theory before dumping $$ for the new one.

http://www.yamahafz1oa.com/forum/sho...11#post2779211
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Old 02-12-2019, 01:00 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by YamahaMan444 View Post
Right, unloaded it SHOULD be making that, according to what Iíve seen and Michael tested and my mechanic says as well.

Now we are all calling it the stator. But are we talking about the inner stator that has the coils and magnets (50$ used) or the outer rotor with the magnets thatís known to have the magnets come off/explode ($300-350$ new). Because itís two separate parts but the rotor assembly is called a stator assembly sometimes too.
Stator = Stationary. It has the wires wound around the iron core poles.

Rotor = Rotates. It is the spinning part with the permanent magnets attached.

Stator + Rotor = Permanent magnet AC Generator.
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Old 02-12-2019, 01:35 PM   #57
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... which (again) is why I feel blaming the stator is not warranted - it doesn't move, the only way it should stop working is if it had been damaged.

I've been wrong before.
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Old 02-12-2019, 01:47 PM   #58
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I've seen an old bike do wonky things because the stator cover wasn't sealed properly and the stator/rotor were swimming in rusty rain water. Not saying that's what happened. But not saying it isn't what happened
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Old 02-12-2019, 02:33 PM   #59
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I've seen an old bike do wonky things because the stator cover wasn't sealed properly and the stator/rotor were swimming in rusty rain water. Not saying that's what happened. But not saying it isn't what happened
It was outside with no cover for 10 months. And the city it was in practically flooded when the hurricane hit Houston. But the bike was in an area without standing water. But the rainfall was massive.

We will see what he says when he gets in there. Itís at the shop. Nothing left for me to do now. I leave for 2 weeks Thursday morning


Also PS -

Underfighter tested his. 20V at idle - 80 at 5K rpms

I normally do not argue or question the wisdom and superior brains on this forum. If you feel like I am, Iím not intentionally doing so
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Old 02-12-2019, 04:46 PM   #60
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The jist of it was that I would be cautious regarding the assumed accuracy of an el cheapo digital multi-meter when measuring AC voltage from a source that isn't true sinusoidal 60 Hz due to the way it is measuring and interpreting the signal (the AC is rectified and then scaled assuming the meter is looking at a true 60 Hz sine wave).
True, this could theoretically be a problem, but not very much of one and it's easy to tell if it's a problem or not. The output is 60 Hz when the engine is at 3600 rpm. If, as you measure the open circuit output of the alternator, you see the voltage peak at 3600 rpm, then you might be dealing with a meter induced error. Even the cheapest of digital meters will work well above 60 Hz, so I wouldn't expect to see the voltage dip until you get well above 5,000 rpm, which would still only be 83 Hz.

The difference in frequency is pretty much insignificant unless your meter has some large inductors in it, which cheap digital meters do not. Digital circuits are much less sensitive to differences in frequency at low audio ranges than analog meter movements are.
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