make a donation to the fz1oa
fz1oa chat
fz1oa picture uploader
maintain your own photo albums
locate fz1oa members
Members Assistance Guide
search the entire board
click here for fz1oa web site home page
register a new account, it's free!
fz1oa store
email the fz1oa webmasters
read the fz1oa guidelines
read the fz1oa policy
open pat's fz1 site in a new window
open iowaz fz1 site in a new window
technical tips

Go Back   FZ1OA Message Board > FZ1 & Fazer Owners Association > Exhausts, Carburetion & Performance > Gen 1 Exhausts, Carburetion & Performance

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-04-2018, 05:47 PM   #281
iluvmyfz1
Just enjoy the machine....
 
iluvmyfz1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Buford, GA
Posts: 4,681
Go Ron Go!
__________________
-'03 FZ1- "Xena"- Custom Orange/Red paint- FuzzyOne mirror mod- SW Motech QR racks- Givi E460 top- E21 side cases- SS brake lines - Scorpion slip-on- R6 shock- Throttlemeisters- Sargent seat- R1 shift arm- Custom sprocket cover- Cheap ass battery- Extended passenger pegs - Gauge of Eternal Coolness - Valtermoto Rearsets - HIDs -
iluvmyfz1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2018, 07:28 PM   #282
rdcusmc
Registered User
 
rdcusmc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,689
Progress tonight - finally! Shift cover gasket came in and have that and the shift arm back in. Pulled the cams again, made shim adjustments and just now plugging the new clearances into the spreadsheet. Getting close to calling it good on valve clearances. I'll pull the cams again tomorrow, swap several shims between cylinders with what I have on hand. At that point, I'll have 19 of 20 valves spot on Ivan's numbers. Will re-eval the last valve and see what I can find for shims locally. Hopefully I can find what I need and purchase it Friday so I can degree the cams in this weekend.

MTF...

Ron
__________________
"The Few. The Proud. The Marines!"

2003 Blue FZ1 - Ivan's MB Jet kit, Akrapovic, GOEC w/remote and GPS, 07 R1 fork conversion w/6 pot brakes, R1 master cylinder, R1 rear wheel w/R6 caliper, Penske shock, Dirt Road seat, AIS removed, HID and LED lights, full Givi luggage, Galfer lines, chain oiler, Rizoma bar, cat-eye turn signals above headlights, grip heaters, factory lower fairings, air box mod w/high flow filter, Cometic thin head gasket, FazerPhil large gas tank mod (in progress).

Last edited by rdcusmc; 01-05-2018 at 05:05 AM.
rdcusmc is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2018, 11:18 PM   #283
arkie6
Registered User
 
arkie6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Russellville, AR
Posts: 5,315
Some Honda valve shims are the same 7.48mm diameter as the Yamaha FZ1 shims, but they make them in half increments compared to the Yamaha shims (0.025 mm increments vs. 0.05 mm increments) allowing you to get closer to your desired clearance.

http://www.yamahafz1oa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=63792
arkie6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2018, 05:58 PM   #284
rdcusmc
Registered User
 
rdcusmc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,689
VALVE CLEARANCE COMPLETE

Well, it took long enough and I apologize for the delay BUT the valve clearances are set. Here is the final (which was NOT easy to get to).

I'm done for today. Next up: Degree the cams...

Best,
Ron
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_5699.jpg (90.1 KB, 205 views)
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Valves-FINAL VALVE CLEARANCE @ 26,000 miles post mods.pdf (25.4 KB, 16 views)
__________________
"The Few. The Proud. The Marines!"

2003 Blue FZ1 - Ivan's MB Jet kit, Akrapovic, GOEC w/remote and GPS, 07 R1 fork conversion w/6 pot brakes, R1 master cylinder, R1 rear wheel w/R6 caliper, Penske shock, Dirt Road seat, AIS removed, HID and LED lights, full Givi luggage, Galfer lines, chain oiler, Rizoma bar, cat-eye turn signals above headlights, grip heaters, factory lower fairings, air box mod w/high flow filter, Cometic thin head gasket, FazerPhil large gas tank mod (in progress).

Last edited by rdcusmc; 01-06-2018 at 06:49 PM.
rdcusmc is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2018, 08:16 PM   #285
rdcusmc
Registered User
 
rdcusmc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,689
Quick update: I'm nearly set for valve timing. I've got machinist's dial, etc... in place. All set up with the exception of one bolt which I am picking up tomorrow. If all goes well, I'll have the cam timing complete before the day ends Wednesday.

Procedure: My plan is to measure the cam timing with the factory cam sprockets first as a trial to insure I'm getting accurate measurements and doing the math correctly. I should be sitting at factory settings less 2 degrees if memory serves after the installation of the thin head gasket. Once I'm good on the procedure, I'll swap the slotted sprockets in and finish the dial in. I'm sure I could go ahead and install the new sprockets now and save the extra step but I'm going conservative for my own peace of mind.

More to follow...

Ron
__________________
"The Few. The Proud. The Marines!"

2003 Blue FZ1 - Ivan's MB Jet kit, Akrapovic, GOEC w/remote and GPS, 07 R1 fork conversion w/6 pot brakes, R1 master cylinder, R1 rear wheel w/R6 caliper, Penske shock, Dirt Road seat, AIS removed, HID and LED lights, full Givi luggage, Galfer lines, chain oiler, Rizoma bar, cat-eye turn signals above headlights, grip heaters, factory lower fairings, air box mod w/high flow filter, Cometic thin head gasket, FazerPhil large gas tank mod (in progress).
rdcusmc is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2018, 05:43 PM   #286
rdcusmc
Registered User
 
rdcusmc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,689
DEGREEING THE CAMS

Apologies for delays in getting a picture update posted. I'll share this with the group as a "what I think I've learned" piece as well as for scrutiny from anyone more experienced at this than I am.

As I understand it, to set the cams the most important piece is insuring you have Top Dead Center for the #1&4 pistons. To this end, I set my crank and pistons at TDC with the head removed because I was so manic I'd be off. I used the machinist's dial to set TDC. In addition to setting my degree wheel at zero and noting the factory timing mark for TDC, I also added two timing marks of my own for TDC on the stator as a failsafe and to make life easier turning the crank from the stator side. Pic below shows the new timing marks and setup.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_5706.jpg (83.1 KB, 153 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_5709.jpg (91.6 KB, 154 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_5710.jpg (78.5 KB, 153 views)
__________________
"The Few. The Proud. The Marines!"

2003 Blue FZ1 - Ivan's MB Jet kit, Akrapovic, GOEC w/remote and GPS, 07 R1 fork conversion w/6 pot brakes, R1 master cylinder, R1 rear wheel w/R6 caliper, Penske shock, Dirt Road seat, AIS removed, HID and LED lights, full Givi luggage, Galfer lines, chain oiler, Rizoma bar, cat-eye turn signals above headlights, grip heaters, factory lower fairings, air box mod w/high flow filter, Cometic thin head gasket, FazerPhil large gas tank mod (in progress).

Last edited by rdcusmc; 01-12-2018 at 06:22 PM.
rdcusmc is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2018, 06:04 PM   #287
rdcusmc
Registered User
 
rdcusmc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,689
As for setting the cam timing, my understanding after digging around the web and having a few discussions with different folks, the procedure goes like this:

-Find TDC
-Set degree wheel and marker for 0 degrees (Pic in previous post)
-Place machinist's dial on valve bucket as squarely as possible. The bucket should not be pressed by the cam lobe. I also mounted mine with pressure on the dial and reset the dial wheel to zero. I did this so I could get readings as the bucket moved both up and down. I got my gauge from Harbor Freight and it works fine.
-Rotate the crank watch the gauge. When the cam lobe begins to press on the bucket, keep rotating until you get .004 measured on one side of the cam lobe.
-Check the degree wheel and record the number.
-Rotate the crank again and remeasure on the other side of the cam lobe when you get to .004 again. Record the reading on degree wheel.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_5707.jpg (109.8 KB, 154 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_5708.jpg (108.1 KB, 154 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_5711.jpg (86.9 KB, 153 views)
__________________
"The Few. The Proud. The Marines!"

2003 Blue FZ1 - Ivan's MB Jet kit, Akrapovic, GOEC w/remote and GPS, 07 R1 fork conversion w/6 pot brakes, R1 master cylinder, R1 rear wheel w/R6 caliper, Penske shock, Dirt Road seat, AIS removed, HID and LED lights, full Givi luggage, Galfer lines, chain oiler, Rizoma bar, cat-eye turn signals above headlights, grip heaters, factory lower fairings, air box mod w/high flow filter, Cometic thin head gasket, FazerPhil large gas tank mod (in progress).

Last edited by rdcusmc; 01-12-2018 at 06:24 PM.
rdcusmc is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2018, 06:19 PM   #288
rdcusmc
Registered User
 
rdcusmc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,689
After setting up the dial on either intake or exhaust bucket, I rotated the crank a few times to make sure the dial zero'd consistently.

Once you have your dial readings, it is time for some math. If I have this correct:
-Take your largest reading and add 180
-Take that total and subtract the lower reading
-Take that number and divide by 2

So:
((LR + 180) - SM)/2 = cam degree

From my pics, you can see on the intake readings I have 85 and 46. Plugging these numbers in gives:
- 85+180=265
- 265-46=219
- 219/2=109.5

Ivan recommends optimum 108 degree setup for the intake. If my measurements and math are right, then I am currently still off by 1.5 degrees for the intake cam.

The exhaust cam is good to go according to Ivan's published number of 100 degree optimal, presuming my math and measurements are correct:
- 37+180=217
- 217-18=199
- 199/2=99.5

So anyway, to wrap up for the time being, I'm inviting scrutiny of what I've shared tonight. I think I'm out of room to adjust the intake sprocket any further so I'll probably have to remove the cam and rotate it a tooth so I can get the timing to 108 or just below.

More to follow,
Ron
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_5712.jpg (97.6 KB, 149 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_5714.jpg (97.8 KB, 151 views)
__________________
"The Few. The Proud. The Marines!"

2003 Blue FZ1 - Ivan's MB Jet kit, Akrapovic, GOEC w/remote and GPS, 07 R1 fork conversion w/6 pot brakes, R1 master cylinder, R1 rear wheel w/R6 caliper, Penske shock, Dirt Road seat, AIS removed, HID and LED lights, full Givi luggage, Galfer lines, chain oiler, Rizoma bar, cat-eye turn signals above headlights, grip heaters, factory lower fairings, air box mod w/high flow filter, Cometic thin head gasket, FazerPhil large gas tank mod (in progress).
rdcusmc is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2018, 06:00 AM   #289
Ivan
Performance Master
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Congers, NY
Posts: 3,458
The only thing that I would like to add here is that you should find "0" by using the "positive stop method"

This is because it's possible to have the piston at TDC for a few degrees of crank rotation.

A quick search on youtube give this... it not a bike, but the procedure is the same.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWZa3G6zSr4


Ivan
__________________
ivansperformanceproducts.com
Ivan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2018, 09:53 AM   #290
longeze
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 565
If anyone found the explanation and example of cam timing procedure I published in post #17 of this thread unclear or confusing, please let me know the specifics of the ambiguity, so that I can edit it to make things easier for the next guy. My intent when I published that description, was to save people the hassle of having to search around on the web to find the procedure and to alleviate any confusion. Hopefully Rons pictures will help.

As to the need for a hard stop, everyone has their own way of doing things. A hard stop certainly makes things easier/faster if you haven't done this procedure before - to be sure, but if you used a dial indicator to find TDC and rotated the crank CW AND CCW to find "0deg", your results can be totally trusted. You do need to use a sufficiently large offset value - larger than the cumulative tolerances to be accounted for. I used 0.050" IIRC, but the actual value doesn't really matter much as long as you use the same value in both your measurements in each direction of rotation. In Rons example, he used 0.004" which from my perspective is a tad on the small side for the reasons I just stated. The idea is that you want the offset value to be larger than the expected "slop" (or hysteresis) present in your crank and rod bearings/bushings as well as piston to wall clearance(your piston can/will tilt slightly in the bore). By rotating the crank in both directions, the clearances and wear in the mechanical system are accounted for and an accurate value for TDC is obtained.

Last edited by longeze; 01-13-2018 at 10:15 AM.
longeze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2018, 05:07 PM   #291
rdcusmc
Registered User
 
rdcusmc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,689
Piston Stop

Just for grins, if anyone is interested, you can make your own piston stop. I purchased two bolts (I couldn't find one bolt the length that I wanted) at Ace Hardware size M10 1.0 pitch fine thread. Using a little Permatex Steel Weld, I prepped and then epoxied the bolts together along with the shank of a hex bit on the end. Works a treat and cost me about $4 to make. I thought while I was "learning", I would use the piston stop method for finding TDC as a litmus test for what I'd seen using the machinist's dial.

I'll post more on the project, probably tomorrow.

Best,
Ron
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_5719.jpg (108.7 KB, 128 views)
__________________
"The Few. The Proud. The Marines!"

2003 Blue FZ1 - Ivan's MB Jet kit, Akrapovic, GOEC w/remote and GPS, 07 R1 fork conversion w/6 pot brakes, R1 master cylinder, R1 rear wheel w/R6 caliper, Penske shock, Dirt Road seat, AIS removed, HID and LED lights, full Givi luggage, Galfer lines, chain oiler, Rizoma bar, cat-eye turn signals above headlights, grip heaters, factory lower fairings, air box mod w/high flow filter, Cometic thin head gasket, FazerPhil large gas tank mod (in progress).
rdcusmc is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2018, 05:45 PM   #292
Ivan
Performance Master
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Congers, NY
Posts: 3,458
I'm very interested in your findings. ...

Ivan
__________________
ivansperformanceproducts.com
Ivan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2018, 11:16 AM   #293
rdcusmc
Registered User
 
rdcusmc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,689
Well, it took long enough BUT the final cam numbers are in: 105.5 intake, 100.25 exhaust.
I decided to move to a lesser number than 108 on the intake to provide a small boost to low end and midrange where I spend nearly all of my time.

Regarding the piston stop, I looked to my eye like a half to maybe a degree difference between using the machinist's dial and the piston stop. In the end, for a variety of reasons given how I secured the dial for that reading, I thought the piston stop was more accurate so I adjusted the fraction needed to re-zero TDC.

So, the good news here is that tons of shared knowledge from Ivan, Marc (Longeze) and many others has led to getting the hard part done and should bear fruit on the dyno. HUGE thanks to all for your shared inputs, guidance and patience!!

I'm not done with the thread obviously but I'll begin final reassembly this afternoon and start looking forward to cranking her up.

MTF,

Ron
__________________
"The Few. The Proud. The Marines!"

2003 Blue FZ1 - Ivan's MB Jet kit, Akrapovic, GOEC w/remote and GPS, 07 R1 fork conversion w/6 pot brakes, R1 master cylinder, R1 rear wheel w/R6 caliper, Penske shock, Dirt Road seat, AIS removed, HID and LED lights, full Givi luggage, Galfer lines, chain oiler, Rizoma bar, cat-eye turn signals above headlights, grip heaters, factory lower fairings, air box mod w/high flow filter, Cometic thin head gasket, FazerPhil large gas tank mod (in progress).
rdcusmc is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2018, 07:52 PM   #294
rdcusmc
Registered User
 
rdcusmc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,689
DAYUM. Get everything back together, fill the radiator and oil. So far so good. Start adding gas and I've got a crack in the fuel line where it joins the tank! Engine is turning over fine with the starter. Will replace the fuel line and try again.

Best,
Ron
__________________
"The Few. The Proud. The Marines!"

2003 Blue FZ1 - Ivan's MB Jet kit, Akrapovic, GOEC w/remote and GPS, 07 R1 fork conversion w/6 pot brakes, R1 master cylinder, R1 rear wheel w/R6 caliper, Penske shock, Dirt Road seat, AIS removed, HID and LED lights, full Givi luggage, Galfer lines, chain oiler, Rizoma bar, cat-eye turn signals above headlights, grip heaters, factory lower fairings, air box mod w/high flow filter, Cometic thin head gasket, FazerPhil large gas tank mod (in progress).
rdcusmc is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2018, 06:17 PM   #295
rdcusmc
Registered User
 
rdcusmc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,689
UPDATE

Everything is back together, looks good. I got a fuel line today, hooked it up, check for positive spark with the plugs and then added gas. Won't start. I've checked fuel in the bowls (yep) and the spark again at the plug (all good). Double checked the plug wires and they are routed correctly. I don't see anything unplugged or disconnected anywhere. I checked the airbox to make sure I hadn't left anything but the filter but that's all good. Adjusted TPS too to try and get it in range, knowing that I'll use Ivan's method once the bike is running.

Anyway, I'll do more troubleshooting in the next couple days and see if I can figure out why she isn't lighting. A little frustrated here but not too bad. Almost certain to be something simple.

Send comments or suggestions if you've got'm. Anything that speeds up the correction and gets the engine purring is always welcome here.

Ron
__________________
"The Few. The Proud. The Marines!"

2003 Blue FZ1 - Ivan's MB Jet kit, Akrapovic, GOEC w/remote and GPS, 07 R1 fork conversion w/6 pot brakes, R1 master cylinder, R1 rear wheel w/R6 caliper, Penske shock, Dirt Road seat, AIS removed, HID and LED lights, full Givi luggage, Galfer lines, chain oiler, Rizoma bar, cat-eye turn signals above headlights, grip heaters, factory lower fairings, air box mod w/high flow filter, Cometic thin head gasket, FazerPhil large gas tank mod (in progress).
rdcusmc is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2018, 06:57 PM   #296
MichaelFZ1
Off the deep end
 
MichaelFZ1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Georgia Piedmont
Posts: 742
Must be firing order related. You’ve got fuel and spark, so that leads me to believe nothing is amiss there. I doubt your carbs are stopped up, and you seemed pretty particular about the assembly, with loads of pics, so I doubt you’re 180 out on a camshaft.

If there’s air coming out of the muffler when cranking (no obstructions in the air box or exhaust) the only thing I can think of is firing order since you are getting spark to the plugs and fuel to the carbs.

Edit: just pulled up the parts fiche, since my gen 1 troubleshooting is a little flaky. I see it’s got two coils, you sure you didn’t get the power wires to the coil crossed?
MichaelFZ1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2018, 06:37 AM   #297
reubswinks
Registered User
 
reubswinks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Grand Haven, MI
Posts: 310
Might be worth checking compression in the cylinders just to make sure everything is good on that front.
reubswinks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2018, 08:05 AM   #298
iluvmyfz1
Just enjoy the machine....
 
iluvmyfz1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Buford, GA
Posts: 4,681
Cylinders/pistons/rings, everything super cold and dry with no lubrication, possibly resulting in loss of compression?

Hopefully there's not a valve or valves not closing and sealing properly.
__________________
-'03 FZ1- "Xena"- Custom Orange/Red paint- FuzzyOne mirror mod- SW Motech QR racks- Givi E460 top- E21 side cases- SS brake lines - Scorpion slip-on- R6 shock- Throttlemeisters- Sargent seat- R1 shift arm- Custom sprocket cover- Cheap ass battery- Extended passenger pegs - Gauge of Eternal Coolness - Valtermoto Rearsets - HIDs -
iluvmyfz1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2018, 08:39 AM   #299
rdcusmc
Registered User
 
rdcusmc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,689
Thanks for all the replies and suggestions. I'm not worried. I think this is pretty straightforward - maybe a phasing problem.

More background:
-As I rotate the engine with the starter, I'm getting healthy air puffs out of the tailpipe so I think compression is likely good.
-Engine oil is full and I've rotated the engine enough that everything should be well-lubed and sealing again.
-I hand pressed each valve bucket with the head off to make sure the the valves compressed smoothly and returned to their position prior to reinstall.
-I've attempted a crude TPS adjustment to get it dialed close to 5k.
-I checked the two outside carb bowls for fuel and they were good to go.

I'm looking for an adapter now for my compression gauge so that I can do a quick compression check. Nice suggestion from Marc to also check compression build in the cylinder against seeing a synchronized spark from the plug (while hand cranking the engine) - I'll be doing that. Will probably lift the valve cover enough to see the cam lobes, rotate the engine to TDC again and check the cams against the timing marks. I've heard no strange noises so far at any point that would alarm me or lead me to believe the valves were out of synch with the pistons and they were crashing into each other.

MTF.

Ron
__________________
"The Few. The Proud. The Marines!"

2003 Blue FZ1 - Ivan's MB Jet kit, Akrapovic, GOEC w/remote and GPS, 07 R1 fork conversion w/6 pot brakes, R1 master cylinder, R1 rear wheel w/R6 caliper, Penske shock, Dirt Road seat, AIS removed, HID and LED lights, full Givi luggage, Galfer lines, chain oiler, Rizoma bar, cat-eye turn signals above headlights, grip heaters, factory lower fairings, air box mod w/high flow filter, Cometic thin head gasket, FazerPhil large gas tank mod (in progress).
rdcusmc is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2018, 12:58 PM   #300
Bad Moon
Registered User
 
Bad Moon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: At lunch with Grommet
Posts: 765
The fuel pump is running normally? How long did you crank it for?

When I was in high school I rebuilt my dirtbike. Had it all back together, fuel in the tank, fuel turned on. I kicked and kicked and nothing. Pulled the plug, cleaned it, had spark, put it back. Kicked a couple more times...nothing.
THEN I pulled the choke, gave it a kick, and it fired right up. So...make sure you check the simple things first.
Bad Moon is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   FZ1OA Message Board > FZ1 & Fazer Owners Association > Exhausts, Carburetion & Performance > Gen 1 Exhausts, Carburetion & Performance


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:10 AM.


Questions? Comments?
Click on name below to contact via PM
Rabeet (Admin) Desmo (Admin)

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Website and Message Board Contents Copyright 2001-2007 FZ1OA
The marks YAMAHA® and FZ1® are used under license from Yamaha Motor Corporation, U.S.A.
The information on this web site is NOT approved or endorsed by Yamaha Motor Corporation in any way.
Page generated in 0.09750 seconds with 12 queries