make a donation to the fz1oa
fz1oa chat
fz1oa picture uploader
maintain your own photo albums
locate fz1oa members
search the entire board
click here for fz1oa web site home page
register a new account, it's free!
email the fz1oa webmasters
read the fz1oa guidelines
read the fz1oa policy
open pat's fz1 site in a new window
open iowaz fz1 site in a new window
technical tips

Go Back   FZ1OA Message Board > FZ1 & Fazer Owners Association > "Off Topic" Discussion

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-16-2014, 06:39 AM   #1
WileyLogHomes
Need a Log Home?
 
WileyLogHomes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Roanoke VA
Posts: 2,510
Tax structure alternatives

So in honor of dropping off my taxes yesterday 5mkn before the post office closed, and having my first thread locked (still waiting on the t-shirt) what are your thoughts on the current tax structure in the US? I like the flat tax, but I like the idea of a national sales tax better. It would encourage savings, discourage "disposable societies" and would capture a lot of currently untaxed money (money generated from illegal activities) thoughts? And let's try and stay on topic.
__________________
07 FZ1 lots of goodies
www.WileyLogHomes.com
WileyLogHomes is offline  
Old 04-16-2014, 06:45 AM   #2
still_bluenoser
Registered User
 
still_bluenoser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Nova Scotia Canada
Posts: 1,831
Quote:
Originally Posted by WileyLogHomes View Post
discourage "disposable societies"


I'm not a big fan of any tax designed to alter the citizens behavior.
__________________
2003 FZ1
1982 GS750SZ Katana 7-11 GSXR project
1979 CBX
still_bluenoser is offline  
Old 04-16-2014, 06:54 AM   #3
Alley Oop
Proof That Man Rode Dinosaurs
 
Alley Oop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Florida Gulf Coast
Posts: 22,794
I used to think flat tax was a good idea until I realized that it meant middle class would have to pay more to make up the difference.

I don't know enough about a national tax. I think I heard once that it would need to be high, around 25% or more to replace income tax. As long as there were exceptions that reduced any disproportionate impact on the working poor, it might be okay.

With a small business, there's not much left after expenses and taxes. I can't help thinking I'm getting screwed each year because I'm not big enough and rich enough to avoid taxes like the wealthy. Strange how that works.
Alley Oop is offline  
Old 04-16-2014, 06:54 AM   #4
drfous
Happy Warrior
 
drfous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: The American Sector
Posts: 13,337
Quote:
Originally Posted by still_bluenoser View Post
I'm not a big fan of any tax designed to alter the citizens behavior.
That's gonna cut down on political donations.
drfous is offline  
Old 04-16-2014, 07:04 AM   #5
WileyLogHomes
Need a Log Home?
 
WileyLogHomes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Roanoke VA
Posts: 2,510
I see a difference between citizens and consumers, not all citizens prescribe to the theory of buying low cost junk that will soon break, but it doesn't matter because it was so cheap and is easily replaced with more low cost junk.
__________________
07 FZ1 lots of goodies
www.WileyLogHomes.com
WileyLogHomes is offline  
Old 04-16-2014, 07:06 AM   #6
WileyLogHomes
Need a Log Home?
 
WileyLogHomes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Roanoke VA
Posts: 2,510
And as a side note aren't a lot of taxes in place to alter behavior? Cigarette tax, alcohol tax, fuel tax, etc.
__________________
07 FZ1 lots of goodies
www.WileyLogHomes.com
WileyLogHomes is offline  
Old 04-16-2014, 07:35 AM   #7
AndyW
Dumbass with a full PM inbox..
 
AndyW's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Marietta, GA
Posts: 23,857
National sales tax would be high but there are already embedded taxes in products, so their prices would go down. Exemptions would be on basic essentials, but the easiest way to provide that fairly is a standard deduction for each person in a household.
__________________
'01 FZ1 set up for distance
'07 FZ1 set up for fun
(both in the *faster* blue)


Which would you prefer?
AndyW is offline  
Old 04-16-2014, 08:46 AM   #8
dipps
administrator
 
dipps's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: .... land of sky blue waters (except in winter)
Posts: 52,056
i don't pretend to know the answers, but i got bent over/no lube this tax season, and am sick of this crap. hard-working, honest folk seem to get screwed more than anyone in this country. (end mini-rant)

i was reading up on this the other day.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworst...nsumption-tax/
__________________
Into the hands of every individual is given a marvelous power for good or evil -- the silent, unconscious, unseen influence of his life. This is simply the constant radiation of what man really is, not what he pretends to be.
"I've learned there are three things you don't discuss with people: religion, politics and the Great Pumpkin." - Linus
dipps is offline  
Old 04-16-2014, 08:58 AM   #9
motomania
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Merced, CA
Posts: 3,805
Throw out the entire tax code. No deductions for anyone. If you make $1 you pay an income tax, even if only $0.01. Everyone must pay something. Even welfare is taxable income.

Replace the tax code with a flat tax.

Layoff the entire IRS
__________________
CMSP/MTC and Total Control IRC and ARC instructor and MSF Ridercoach
2014 FZ-09: Traxxion Dynamics AT20 fork cartridges, Penske rear shock, R1/R6 MC, SSL lines, custom tail, raised Sargeant seat, T-rex frame sliders and case protectors, ThrottleMeister handlebar end weights, G2 Throttle tamer, ECU reflashed by Ivan, custom tank protectors, new mirrors with turnsignals built-in, ErMax 25cm flyscreen and ErMax radiator shrouds.
http://www.yamahafz1oa.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=130119
motomania is offline  
Old 04-16-2014, 09:10 AM   #10
still_bluenoser
Registered User
 
still_bluenoser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Nova Scotia Canada
Posts: 1,831
Quote:
Originally Posted by WileyLogHomes View Post
And as a side note aren't a lot of taxes in place to alter behavior? Cigarette tax, alcohol tax, fuel tax, etc.


Under the guise of altering behavior.. Sin taxes are just easier to convince the public to let them increase their revenue by leaps and bounds.
__________________
2003 FZ1
1982 GS750SZ Katana 7-11 GSXR project
1979 CBX
still_bluenoser is offline  
Old 04-16-2014, 09:43 AM   #11
82packer
Shoe King
 
82packer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Base of the Pinkie
Posts: 3,130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alley Oop View Post
I don't know enough about a national tax. I think I heard once that it would need to be high, around 25% or more to replace income tax. As long as there were exceptions that reduced any disproportionate impact on the working poor, it might be okay.
I'm betting the government would do just fine on 12% flat tax. I think it should be a flat tax (everyone). Hell I'd be willing to go 15-18% IF the extra money went towards the debt.
82packer is offline  
Old 04-16-2014, 09:43 AM   #12
ralphcor
Registered User
 
ralphcor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,733
Quote:
Originally Posted by motomania View Post
Throw out the entire tax code. No deductions for anyone. If you make $1 you pay an income tax, even if only $0.01. Everyone must pay something. Even welfare is taxable income.

Replace the tax code with a flat tax.

Layoff the entire IRS
I would vote for you/this
__________________
Current: Riva125, CRF230L, Elite250, TMax, Vulcan750, 04 & 06 FZ1, Falco, ZX10R, ValkyrieTourer.
Past: too many
ralphcor is offline  
Old 04-16-2014, 10:07 AM   #13
drfous
Happy Warrior
 
drfous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: The American Sector
Posts: 13,337
Classic Rumsfeld

drfous is offline  
Old 04-16-2014, 10:17 AM   #14
dipps
administrator
 
dipps's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: .... land of sky blue waters (except in winter)
Posts: 52,056
sounds about right to me.
__________________
Into the hands of every individual is given a marvelous power for good or evil -- the silent, unconscious, unseen influence of his life. This is simply the constant radiation of what man really is, not what he pretends to be.
"I've learned there are three things you don't discuss with people: religion, politics and the Great Pumpkin." - Linus
dipps is offline  
Old 04-16-2014, 11:14 AM   #15
WileyLogHomes
Need a Log Home?
 
WileyLogHomes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Roanoke VA
Posts: 2,510
That's my feeling exactly. It seems that they are vague specifically so they can interpret them at will for their benefit
__________________
07 FZ1 lots of goodies
www.WileyLogHomes.com
WileyLogHomes is offline  
Old 04-16-2014, 11:24 AM   #16
Rabeet
Boys of Walmart
 
Rabeet's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 32,699
Our system screws the people that drive the economy forward.

And doesn't really help people that are struggling.

But I think the real problem is that it is too lopsided. Though that does benefit me.
__________________
Believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it. - Andre Gide

If the rule you followed brought you to this, of what use was the rule? - Anton Chigurh

If it ain't it'll do til the mess gets here. - Ed Tom Bell

He wants to know the names of all those he's better than - Little Hitlers Elvis Costello
Rabeet is offline  
Old 04-16-2014, 01:09 PM   #17
drfous
Happy Warrior
 
drfous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: The American Sector
Posts: 13,337
AMT. enough said.
drfous is offline  
Old 04-16-2014, 01:34 PM   #18
Pat Glenn
Everything's Just Ducky
 
Pat Glenn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Southern California
Posts: 15,364
The tax structure as it is currently defined has a little something for everyone. Changing it to a flat tax will never happen as everyone has something to lose. There are also too many financial structures in place that exist just because the tax code is the way it is. Home ownership is possible for many because mortgage interest is deductible. People loan money to local municipalities because the interest income is tax free. Employee benefits are not taxed as income. Capital gains and qualified dividends are taxed at a lower rate to encourage investing. etc.

The problem is that taxes are just too high for everyone because the government is inserting itself up into those areas where it has no business being.

Pat
Pat Glenn is offline  
Old 04-16-2014, 01:51 PM   #19
Kburggibbs
Registered User
 
Kburggibbs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Dayton, NV
Posts: 3,337
I'm in favor of a progressive code with minimal deductions for personal income taxes. Of course, I don't know how much income is claimed at each level, but I imagine it looking something like this (%'s and ranges are open to adjustment; these are just for the example):

0% on first $50k of income, 2% on income >$50k to <$150k, 5% on income >$150 to <$400k, 10% on income >$400k to <$700k and 20% on all income >$700k.

So if you make $175k you would pay $0 on the first $50k, $2000 on the next $100k, and $1250 on the next $25k for a total liability of $3250 without any deductions.

If you make $1.5M your liability would be $204,500 (if I did the math right) without deductions.

Deductions would be limited to things like # of dependents, charitable donations, mortgage interest, education expenses, medical care (no minimum expenses required) and maybe a few others. HOWEVER, deductions would be capped at some number that makes sense, like $50k.

So the same $175k with >$50k in deductions, you will still have to pay 2% on $75k for a total liablity of $1500.

If you make $1.5M your liability is reduced very little because your only going to pay 20% of $50k less after deductions or $194,500.

But I'm conservative so I apparently need to give more tax breaks for the wealthy.
__________________
"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie - deliberate, contrived and dishonest - but the myth - persistent, persuasive and unrealistic." -- John F. Kennedy

"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter." -- Martin Luther King Jr.
Kburggibbs is offline  
Old 04-16-2014, 01:56 PM   #20
Rabeet
Boys of Walmart
 
Rabeet's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 32,699
From my POV, who is getting milked are the upper middle class. As fous said, the damned AMT.

But that's just the government trying to rake in enough money. If our society dolled out the money more evenly, it wouldn't be necessary.
__________________
Believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it. - Andre Gide

If the rule you followed brought you to this, of what use was the rule? - Anton Chigurh

If it ain't it'll do til the mess gets here. - Ed Tom Bell

He wants to know the names of all those he's better than - Little Hitlers Elvis Costello
Rabeet is offline  
Closed Thread

Go Back   FZ1OA Message Board > FZ1 & Fazer Owners Association > "Off Topic" Discussion


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:27 PM.


Questions? Comments?
Click on name below to contact via PM
Rabeet (Admin) Desmo (Admin)

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Website and Message Board Contents Copyright 2001-2007 FZ1OA
The marks YAMAHA® and FZ1® are used under license from Yamaha Motor Corporation, U.S.A.
The information on this web site is NOT approved or endorsed by Yamaha Motor Corporation in any way.
Page generated in 0.09627 seconds with 12 queries