make a donation to the fz1oa
fz1oa chat
fz1oa picture uploader
maintain your own photo albums
locate fz1oa members
search the entire board
click here for fz1oa web site home page
register a new account, it's free!
email the fz1oa webmasters
read the fz1oa guidelines
read the fz1oa policy
open pat's fz1 site in a new window
open iowaz fz1 site in a new window
technical tips

Go Back   FZ1OA Message Board > FZ1 & Fazer Owners Association > Exhausts, Carburetion & Performance > Gen 1 Exhausts, Carburetion & Performance

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-14-2020, 08:33 PM   #1
ORBlackFZ1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Portland, Oregon Metro Area
Posts: 111
Leak between Carb #1 & #2

Hi everyone:

I had my 02 Carbs rebuilt last fall by a veteran Yamaha mechanic with 20+ professional years working on Yamaha, Suzuki, Kawasaki, etc. I had him put in new o-rings, clean the jets and replace the float cover gaskets, etc.

I just installed the carbs last week. I finished up today (2/14/2020) and turned on the ignition. As soon as the float bowls filled, a very large spray of gas came out between carb #1 & #2. So here are a couple of questions:

1. Is there any way to test for fuel path leaks without the carbs on the FZ1? Can I use 10-20psi of air with soapy water to find the leak?

2. Is it possible that I cracked a bowl cover putting the carbs back in? I am NOT Mongo, but I was able to muscle the carbs back in just using the tilt up and down method.

3. Any other suggestions before I get totally depressed? I was looking forward to a running FZ1 again.

Thanks in advance for helpful comments,
Eric
ORBlackFZ1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2020, 11:40 PM   #2
Pat Glenn
Everything's Just Ducky
 
Pat Glenn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Southern California
Posts: 15,438
Quote:
Originally Posted by ORBlackFZ1 View Post
I had him put in new o-rings
These?

http://cartestsoftware.com/fz1/jetki...ml#AddendumIII

I ask because your symptoms are very much like fuel leaking around the float needle assembly directly into the carb filling it with gas and eventually leaking out the top.

Pat
Pat Glenn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2020, 12:37 AM   #3
ORBlackFZ1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Portland, Oregon Metro Area
Posts: 111
Parts Photos

Hi Pat, thanks for your response.

I have attached photos of the float gasket, McMaster Orings and parts that were replaced.

I am going to take the carbs back and see if he can help me figure out why the leak. I will also show him your link, in case he wants to learn more.

Carbs are a mystery to me. I understand the basic principles, but applying those basics is another story....Any other advice would be welcome....

Thanks,
Eric
Attached Images
File Type: jpg FloatCoverGasket.jpg (89.6 KB, 154 views)
File Type: jpg McMasterORings.jpg (80.9 KB, 153 views)
File Type: jpg PartsReplaced.jpg (120.7 KB, 150 views)
ORBlackFZ1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2020, 04:06 AM   #4
wotnnc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 250
Before installing any rebuilt carburetor, bank of carbs or whatever, it gets turned upside down and pressure checked with a Mitivac. Failure to hold pressure indicates a leak somewhere which can then be located with soapy water in a spray bottle.
It's even better to do this before installing the float bowls so a leak at the float valves can be seen.
This has worked well for me for a whole lot of years.
wotnnc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2020, 06:06 AM   #5
oldjeep
Registered User
 
oldjeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Victoria, MN
Posts: 711
In my carbs it was the O-rings on the fuel supply tubes that connect the carbs that were leaking. You have to unrack the carbs to replace them.
__________________
Chuck P
2003 FZ1
2004 DL1000
http://www.oldjeep.com
oldjeep is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2020, 10:54 AM   #6
ORBlackFZ1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Portland, Oregon Metro Area
Posts: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by wotnnc View Post
Before installing any rebuilt carburetor, bank of carbs or whatever, it gets turned upside down and pressure checked with a Mitivac. Failure to hold pressure indicates a leak somewhere which can then be located with soapy water in a spray bottle.
It's even better to do this before installing the float bowls so a leak at the float valves can be seen.
This has worked well for me for a whole lot of years.
Thanks for the suggestion. I just got a new Mitivac, so I will give it a try. I am assuming that with the carbs upside down, the floats should be shutting off the needle valves, which means there should be no leaks?

Eric
ORBlackFZ1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2020, 07:18 PM   #7
ORBlackFZ1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Portland, Oregon Metro Area
Posts: 111
I found the leak

Hi everyone:

I did the pressure test with my carbs upside down using the Mityvac as a pressure generator and some soapy water sprayed on to the carbs. The bubbles showed up between carbs 1 & 2 and 3 & 4 on both ends of part #5EA-14148-00-00 (Ref #53).

https://www.yamahasportsplaza.com/oe...f25/carburetor

I am assuming that this means the part #36Y-14147-00-00 (Ref #58) are bad.

Does this mean I need to have the carbs separated and all the o-rings replaced between the carbs?

If so, does anyone know who provides that service? The mechanic that rebuilt my carbs last fall (2019) has a hernia and is going into surgery to get it fixed at the end of the month. Recovery is a couple of months later....

Thanks,
Eric
Attached Images
File Type: png CarbLeak03.png (192.8 KB, 122 views)
File Type: jpg CarbLeakMedium01.jpg (158.4 KB, 121 views)
File Type: jpg CarbLeakLarge01.jpg (170.6 KB, 119 views)
ORBlackFZ1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2020, 07:47 PM   #8
oldjeep
Registered User
 
oldjeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Victoria, MN
Posts: 711
Yes, it means you have to separate them. It is easy, only painful part is getting the springs back in on the balancing screws.
__________________
Chuck P
2003 FZ1
2004 DL1000
http://www.oldjeep.com
oldjeep is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2020, 01:15 AM   #9
ORBlackFZ1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Portland, Oregon Metro Area
Posts: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldjeep View Post
Yes, it means you have to separate them. It is easy, only painful part is getting the springs back in on the balancing screws.
Thanks, but there has to be more than that. Are the o-rings the same ones that I have from McMaster-Carr?

Are there any other o-rings, gaskets, etc that should be replaced?

Anybody know where there are some instructions to follow? I have already founds some threads on breaking the carbs apart, but none of them are as good as Pat's CD I purchased years ago.

I have an ultrasound cleaner...can I use it to clean the carb after I remove the o-rings?

I am a newbie at this, any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Eric
ORBlackFZ1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2020, 04:47 AM   #10
oldjeep
Registered User
 
oldjeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Victoria, MN
Posts: 711
If you wanted to ultra sonic clean the carb bodies then you would really want to have a complete set of O-rings and gaskets available.

For just the fuel logs I bought a kit of a few hundred metric O-rings at northern tool and used the ones that fit - you need 6 of them.

De racking the carbs is a 2 bolt operation - the big long ones that run the length of the rack. If you still have the coolant lines on the carbs then you need to take those off too. Main thing is to not shoot the little springs that are at the balancing screws across the garage. That is about all the detail I've got.

O-ring kit that I use for random O-rings I need
https://www.northerntool.com/shop/to...4966_200324966
__________________
Chuck P
2003 FZ1
2004 DL1000
http://www.oldjeep.com
oldjeep is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2020, 07:08 AM   #11
wotnnc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 250
Did the guy who just rebuilt you carbs replace these O rings?
Last time I checked, everything was still available from Yamaha and that's all I've ever used. Not saying aftermarket parts won't work but when I'm 300 miles from home, alone and where there isn't a cellular signal, I need all the confidence I can get.
As for cleaning, there may be a white crusty substance inside the bores where these seal. I always figured it is aluminum corrosion but it might be something from the fuel. Regardless what it is, it needs to come out.
I don't have an ultrasonic cleaner so this is what I use for carb rebuilds. https://www.amazon.com/Genuine-Ford-.../dp/B000NU5M3W
I buy it at the local Ford store for about $9.00 a can. I use a gun bore swab in a drill with rubbing compound and then metal polish inside these bores to hopefully create a near perfect surface for the O rings to seal against, then use an O ring lubricant during assembly.
I check all mine as previously described before installation and have never had a leak.
If you don't want to do this yourself, there was a member here offering this service a while back, don't remember who it was but you can probably go back in some of the carburetor threads and find him.
If I could see and had the use of my hands same as I did a few years ago, I'd offer to help you myself but I turned 63 last October and things just don't work like they used to. If I have to go back in my carbs sometime I guess I'll try but it won't be easy. Gettin old is a bi*ch!
wotnnc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2020, 07:25 AM   #12
oldjeep
Registered User
 
oldjeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Victoria, MN
Posts: 711
For full carb cleans I use BerryMan. That way you can just dip the carb for a few hours and have it come out pretty spotless - then just use spray cleaner or air to flush out the passages.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
__________________
Chuck P
2003 FZ1
2004 DL1000
http://www.oldjeep.com
oldjeep is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2020, 07:28 AM   #13
iluvmyfz1
Just enjoy the machine....
 
iluvmyfz1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Buford, GA
Posts: 5,547
Given the age of our Gen I's, I would suggest anyone taking carbs apart to bite the bullet, break them all the way down, and replace all of those o-rings. They're old and shrinking.

Always lubricate o-rings prior to install. EZ Turn Lubricant is one of the best I've found, especially around fuel.
__________________
-'03 FZ1- "Xena"- Custom Orange/Red paint- FuzzyOne mirror mod- SW Motech QR racks- Givi E460 top- E21 side cases- SS brake lines - Scorpion slip-on- Penske 8987 shock- Throttlemeisters- Sargent seat- R1 shift arm- Custom sprocket cover- Cheap ass battery- Extended passenger pegs - Gauge of Eternal Coolness - Valtermoto Rearsets - LED headlights- Carbon airbox covers- Fehling engine case guards (footrests!)- MRA Vario shield -
iluvmyfz1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2020, 03:20 PM   #14
ORBlackFZ1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Portland, Oregon Metro Area
Posts: 111
Chuck:

Thanks, I knew you would have more to share.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldjeep View Post
If you wanted to ultra sonic clean the carb bodies then you would really want to have a complete set of O-rings and gaskets available.[/url]
I am assuming that the carb bodies have to have everything removed...at least all rubber 0-rings and gaskets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldjeep View Post
For just the fuel logs I bought a kit of a few hundred metric O-rings at northern tool and used the ones that fit - you need 6 of them.[/url]
Got it ordered. Northern Tool O-Ring kit for $20 vs Yamaha Parts (8) o-rings for $50....wow! Northern Tools wins that decision.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldjeep View Post
De racking the carbs is a 2 bolt operation - the big long ones that run the length of the rack. If you still have the coolant lines on the carbs then you need to take those off too. Main thing is to not shoot the little springs that are at the balancing screws across the garage. That is about all the detail I've got.[/url]
The little spring tip is definitely a good one! I can't wait to try to get the spring back on. I am assuming that you guys have some tips on making sure the spring is installed correctly.

Thanks for the help. It is appreciated.
Eric
ORBlackFZ1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2020, 03:46 PM   #15
oldjeep
Registered User
 
oldjeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Victoria, MN
Posts: 711
I hope someone has a tip for you on the springs. I shot those damn things across the garage more times than I can count. Luckily each time I heard them well enough to find them.
__________________
Chuck P
2003 FZ1
2004 DL1000
http://www.oldjeep.com
oldjeep is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2020, 03:49 PM   #16
ORBlackFZ1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Portland, Oregon Metro Area
Posts: 111
wotnnc:

Quote:
Originally Posted by wotnnc View Post
Did the guy who just rebuilt you carbs replace these O rings?
Yes, he replaced the needle valve set (#18, 4KM-14107-15-00), cleaned all the jets, put in new float cover gaskets, checked the float levels and a few other things that I don't remember now. We discussed pulling the carbs apart, but I wasn't ready to do that. In hind sight, I should have had him separate the carbs and replace those O-rings also.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wotnnc View Post
Last time I checked, everything was still available from Yamaha and that's all I've ever used. Not saying aftermarket parts won't work but when I'm 300 miles from home, alone and where there isn't a cellular signal, I need all the confidence I can get.
I hear you, but $50 for (8) o-rings...wow! (#58, 36Y-14147-00-00, $5.59 each plus shipping)

Quote:
Originally Posted by wotnnc View Post
As for cleaning, there may be a white crusty substance inside the bores where these seal. I always figured it is aluminum corrosion but it might be something from the fuel. Regardless what it is, it needs to come out.
I don't have an ultrasonic cleaner so this is what I use for carb rebuilds. https://www.amazon.com/Genuine-Ford-.../dp/B000NU5M3W
I buy it at the local Ford store for about $9.00 a can. I use a gun bore swab in a drill with rubbing compound and then metal polish inside these bores to hopefully create a near perfect surface for the O rings to seal against, then use an O ring lubricant during assembly.
I check all mine as previously described before installation and have never had a leak.
I have a new Ultrasonic Cleaner that I am going to try to use with some Simple Green as solution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wotnnc View Post
If you don't want to do this yourself, there was a member here offering this service a while back, don't remember who it was but you can probably go back in some of the carburetor threads and find him.
If you are referring to Ron aka "rdsusmc", I PM'd him a couple of nights ago. I haven't heard back yet. If you have someone else in mind, please let me know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wotnnc View Post
If I could see and had the use of my hands same as I did a few years ago, I'd offer to help you myself but I turned 63 last October and things just don't work like they used to. If I have to go back in my carbs sometime I guess I'll try but it won't be easy. Gettin old is a bi*ch!
Yeah, getting old is a b*tch. I turned 64 last month. I still have "kick" left, but I have definitely had to "think hard before acting"....the worst for me is lacking the confidence to tackle stuff like this...20 years ago, I wouldn't have thought twice about pulling the carbs, now...it takes a lot of strength to get the carbs out and back in.

My confidence is getting stronger with each post I read.

Eric
ORBlackFZ1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2020, 03:51 PM   #17
ORBlackFZ1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Portland, Oregon Metro Area
Posts: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldjeep View Post
For full carb cleans I use BerryMan. That way you can just dip the carb for a few hours and have it come out pretty spotless - then just use spray cleaner or air to flush out the passages.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Sorry for the newbie question, you do remove all the parts before dipping the carb body in the cleaner, right?

Eric
ORBlackFZ1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2020, 04:12 PM   #18
oldjeep
Registered User
 
oldjeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Victoria, MN
Posts: 711
Quote:
Originally Posted by ORBlackFZ1 View Post
Sorry for the newbie question, you do remove all the parts before dipping the carb body in the cleaner, right?

Eric
Yes. you want just a bare carb body with no rubber or plastic bits.
__________________
Chuck P
2003 FZ1
2004 DL1000
http://www.oldjeep.com
oldjeep is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2020, 04:13 PM   #19
ORBlackFZ1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Portland, Oregon Metro Area
Posts: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by iluvmyfz1 View Post
Given the age of our Gen I's, I would suggest anyone taking carbs apart to bite the bullet, break them all the way down, and replace all of those o-rings. They're old and shrinking.

Always lubricate o-rings prior to install. EZ Turn Lubricant is one of the best I've found, especially around fuel.
Sounds like great advice! Do you know of any of the bike shops that sells the EZ Turn? Most of the Google references are related to aircraft sites. It looks like https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catal...ezturnlube.php sells it.

Eric
ORBlackFZ1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2020, 05:00 PM   #20
NHFZ1
Marco Polo wanna be
 
NHFZ1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Seacoast NH
Posts: 898
Quote:
Got it ordered. Northern Tool O-Ring kit for $20 vs Yamaha Parts (8) o-rings for $50....wow! Northern Tools wins that decision
Just make sure the kit o-ring is meant for gasoline. Some are and some are not.
__________________
Sport touring....it's in our genes.
The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits. A. Einstein
NHFZ1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   FZ1OA Message Board > FZ1 & Fazer Owners Association > Exhausts, Carburetion & Performance > Gen 1 Exhausts, Carburetion & Performance


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:23 AM.


Questions? Comments?
Click on name below to contact via PM
Rabeet (Admin) Desmo (Admin)

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Website and Message Board Contents Copyright 2001-2007 FZ1OA
The marks YAMAHA® and FZ1® are used under license from Yamaha Motor Corporation, U.S.A.
The information on this web site is NOT approved or endorsed by Yamaha Motor Corporation in any way.
Page generated in 0.08966 seconds with 11 queries