Brakes at Lean Angle...To Survive and Thrive!

[Cougar8000]

Originally Posted by Bad Moon

That generally only happens if you panic and jam the brake on. That is why it is important to practice so that in a "panic" situation you don't do the wrong thing.
It only takes a little rear brake to help settle the rear or help tighten up a turn.

YYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

it works with practice.

[loosenut]

Sometimes when I ride by myself, I set the alarm on my phone (18 minutes or something like that) and set it to vibrate. When it goes off, I stop as quickly and safely as possible.

[ZachD]

Originally Posted by smithworld

Do what you want, but I would be concerned about high side with that technique (and no ABS). Reminds me of that ducati video earlier in this thread where the rider nearly high sides over the cliff after locking up the rear. Yow!

Agreed. I use much less rear brake force on my FZ1, especially when leaned over, for that very reason. I also only brake @ moderate lean angles in corners on me FZ1 & I brake relatively gently, to avoid high or low sides.... so far, so good (fingers crossed)

[eflyguy]

I had a great ride yesterday morning, and took the (heavier - luggage and all) Gen I to work on the same thing as last week (weighting pegs and using outside knee).

Ran into fog and light rain on one of my favorite, high-speed twisty roads. It took a leap of faith but I think I rode it at close to the same speed as I have previously in the dry. I caught myself 'chickening out' and using brake in places, but for the most part I stayed off the lever. It was considerably harder to achieve the same adjustments as on the Gen II, which I guess is understandable considering the weight difference and setup. One thing that caught me off-guard, seeing as I am carrying so much more speed thru the corners than previously, I'm coming up on the next corner (in a back-to-back section) so much more quickly! Many times I had to simply trust the bike and the tires and throw it into the next corner, then the next. I've rarely thrown a bike around that way (think of gravity cavity at the Dragon) and to do that on the Gen I was, well, breathtaking! I love it!

One thing I was conscious of - I did not shift my butt around as much as I do on the Gen II. That's how I tend to ride the Gen I. I still move my torso (kiss the mirror) when needed but I now find I can get so much more out of the bike with less body.

Next I want to take the Gen II back to those same favorite roads. I'm pumped!
..a

[barryc]

Originally Posted by eflyguy

I had a great ride yesterday morning, and took the (heavier - luggage and all) Gen I to work on the same thing as last week (weighting pegs and using outside knee).

Ran into fog and light rain on one of my favorite, high-speed twisty roads. It took a leap of faith but I think I rode it at close to the same speed as I have previously in the dry. I caught myself 'chickening out' and using brake in places, but for the most part I stayed off the lever. It was considerably harder to achieve the same adjustments as on the Gen II, which I guess is understandable considering the weight difference and setup. One thing that caught me off-guard, seeing as I am carrying so much more speed thru the corners than previously, I'm coming up on the next corner (in a back-to-back section) so much more quickly! Many times I had to simply trust the bike and the tires and throw it into the next corner, then the next. I've rarely thrown a bike around that way (think of gravity cavity at the Dragon) and to do that on the Gen I was, well, breathtaking! I love it!
One thing I was conscious of - I did not shift my butt around as much as I do on the Gen II. That's how I tend to ride the Gen I. I still move my torso (kiss the mirror) when needed but I now find I can get so much more out of the bike with less body.

Next I want to take the Gen II back to those same favorite roads. I'm pumped!
..a

Give the track another chance, its where you need to be......

[Bad Moon]

Originally Posted by DPNonafiz

i dont know why youd want to go there .Rear brake brings chassis down closer to pavement thus reducing ground clearance.

When I'm straight up and down and braking I'm not worried about ground clearance. I use the rear brake when straight up and down because it does lower the rear which means less forward pitch, which means the bike stays more stable. (Plus the GenI is 500lbs and has relatively small front brakes so it needs all the help it can get.)

When leaned over in a turn I will use a little rear brake if I find myself running wide. It's for correction only not something I do all the time. If I have to drag the brake and my pegs to stay in my lane then I'll drag my pegs (which I've never done on the street).

I have a GenI and the rear brake is relatively large which mean you do have to be somewhat careful with application. The only time I've managed to have it lock up though was when it the road was wet.

On a light weight sport bike with big front brakes it would be easy to never have to use the rear brake but on my bike I feel it makes a pretty big difference.

[eflyguy]

Originally Posted by barryc

Give the track another chance, its where you need to be......

Actually, not so much. I don't want to ride faster per se, but to stop braking for/in corners that I could see thru and just didn't feel comfortable at that speed. I'm getting a *lot* more comfortable with the speeds I can carry thru the corner, especially on my favorite tight and twisty roads.

It probably would be fun to put what I've learned into practice there at some point, though..
..a

[DPNonafiz]

Originally Posted by Bad Moon

When I'm straight up and down and braking I'm not worried about ground clearance. I use the rear brake when straight up and down because it does lower the rear which means less forward pitch, which means the bike stays more stable. (Plus the GenI is 500lbs and has relatively small front brakes so it needs all the help it can get.)

When leaned over in a turn I will use a little rear brake if I find myself running wide. It's for correction only not something I do all the time. If I have to drag the brake and my pegs to stay in my lane then I'll drag my pegs (which I've never done on the street).

I have a GenI and the rear brake is relatively large which mean you do have to be somewhat careful with application. The only time I've managed to have it lock up though was when it the road was wet.

On a light weight sport bike with big front brakes it would be easy to never have to use the rear brake but on my bike I feel it makes a pretty big difference.

why do you think that using rear brake would keep you from running wide ?Could you explain the physics of that?

[jredford]

It is a technique that is mostly reserved fo the track. WTS when leaned over it is less upsetting to the front wheel that chopping the throttle.

[Bad Moon]

Originally Posted by DPNonafiz

why do you think that using rear brake would keep you from running wide ?Could you explain the physics of that?

If you are running wide you will need to tighten your line. To do that you have to lean more and slowing down makes it easier to do that. Using the front brake to slow down will make the bike stand up. Chopping the throttle can cause too much weight to transfer which can upset the bike and/or overload the front tire. Usually I just drag the rear brake without letting off the throttle and throttle position in this instance is just barely open.
Leaving the rear brake applied while opening the throttle can also tame the abruptness these bikes tend to have when going from closed throttle to open at lower speeds. This can come in handy when making tight turns in a parking lot or when trying to accelerate smoothly out of a tight turn at the track.

[barryc]

Originally Posted by eflyguy

Actually, not so much. I don't want to ride faster per se, but to stop braking for/in corners that I could see thru and just didn't feel comfortable at that speed. I'm getting a *lot* more comfortable with the speeds I can carry thru the corner, especially on my favorite tight and twisty roads.
It probably would be fun to put what I've learned into practice there at some point, though..
..a

Go the speed limit on the street and you will be comfy, go to the track to learn more skills safely. Its like trying to learn to swim without getting wet, probably not going to happen. I wish you the best of luck my friend..

[barryc]

Originally Posted by Bad Moon

If you are running wide you will need to tighten your line. To do that you have to lean more and slowing down makes it easier to do that. Using the front brake to slow down will make the bike stand up. Chopping the throttle can cause too much weight to transfer which can upset the bike and/or overload the front tire. Usually I just drag the rear brake without letting off the throttle and throttle position in this instance is just barely open.
Leaving the rear brake applied while opening the throttle can also tame the abruptness these bikes tend to have when going from closed throttle to open at lower speeds. This can come in handy when making tight turns in a parking lot or when trying to accelerate smoothly out of a tight turn at the track.

+1 absoluely

[eflyguy]

Originally Posted by barryc

Go the speed limit on the street and you will be comfy, go to the track to learn more skills safely. Its like trying to learn to swim without getting wet, probably not going to happen. I wish you the best of luck my friend..

Ah, I get it.

The roads I'm talking about have speed limits higher than you can actually carry thru many of the corners. I'm not talking about taking sweepers at 70 mph. I'm talking about being able to hold the 25 mph limit thru a corner I was previously taking at (say) 15 mph!

..a

[fizzyrider]

I've been on that road and have several pics in that same spot! Just outside Franklin. It rocks!

[CrazyJoe]

Naw --- I think it's Wolf Pen Gap.

[fizzyrider]

I can't tell if you're being serious Joe, but here's my pic from 2004. sdracer and his wife Cindy on the right. This was the first time we found it. Good times!

[eflyguy]

It's Wolf Pen Gap. No intersection there, and bigger trees.. 34.764576,-83.939679
..a

[fizzyrider]

Gotcha. They sure looked the same to me. The difference in the tree size and such I attributed to the eight year span.

And the "intersection" is only a dirt path coming off a hill. I'm not even sure why there's a stop sign there.

[CrazyJoe]

Originally Posted by fizzyrider

I can't tell if you're being serious Joe, but here's my pic from 2004. sdracer and his wife Cindy on the right. This was the first time we found it. Good times!

I'm amazed I got it right. Many have crashed on that corner.

[Cougar]

Originally Posted by loosenut

Sometimes when I ride by myself, I set the alarm on my phone (18 minutes or something like that) and set it to vibrate. When it goes off, I stop as quickly and safely as possible.

That is brilliant!!!