make a donation to the fz1oa
fz1oa chat
fz1oa picture uploader
maintain your own photo albums
locate fz1oa members
Members Assistance Guide
search the entire board
click here for fz1oa web site home page
register a new account, it's free!
fz1oa store
email the fz1oa webmasters
read the fz1oa guidelines
read the fz1oa policy
open pat's fz1 site in a new window
open iowaz fz1 site in a new window
technical tips

Go Back   FZ1OA Message Board > FZ1 & Fazer Owners Association > Riding Tips & Techniques

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-31-2012, 09:06 PM   #1
jdmz
Registered User
 
jdmz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Lakewood, CO
Posts: 108
Emergency Braking

I was riding today with some buddies and one of the guys (beginner) went into a left turning corner too fast for his comfort level. He Ran off the corner and low-slided on the gravel. I came from behind and kinda panicked so I locked both of my brakes, but my bike was upright so I did not fall.

I ran towards his bike on the gravel, released the brakes and swerved around his front wheel, then tried to swerve away from the rail. I hit the rail with my leg and thankfully I just got bruised up. I know I should have dodged him from the LEFT, from what I have learned, but for some reason I panicked and tried to straighten up and brake. I made about 10 ft of rubber mark.

Any tips on emergency braking? It is really hard to do when you are in a panic situation. Here are some photos of aftermath:



I only had minor damage... The side blinker came off, the coolant hose broke, radiator bracket kinda bent, and cracked the fairing/scraped a bit. There is a crack near the hex bolt in the 2nd picture. We fixed it all and now it looks alright with the exception of a few scuffs.
jdmz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2012, 10:05 PM   #2
RavenRider
Old But Not Slow
 
RavenRider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Hastings,MN
Posts: 8,492
You sir were damn lucky.

Man I hate getting into this but you asked.

1. When you ride with a group or even just two or three, what is your recommended distance or time between riders.

don't have one................??????

Most of my rides I pretty much demand riders hold at least a 2 second interval. Gives everyone a chance to not make the same mistake the guy in front just made.

2. Ride your own line, not someone elses. Break the habit of "follow the leader". Sure, you follow on the same road, but pick "YOUR OWN LINE."

I've seen many crashes where the guy following followed the guy in front of him right down into the ditch. Target fixation is the cause of a good many crashes, followed up by the next guy getting in the mix as well.
Look up target fixation on youtube. Lots of examples

3. You don't practice panic stops at the time of a crash. Go to an empty lot and make some hard pull downs. Then get on a road with as little traffic as possible and do some "AT SPEED STOPS".

I'm talking from 120 mph or higher. A few of those will make a huge difference in your ability to handle hard stops at lesser speeds.

4. Learn to look where you want to go. Where you look is where you go. Don't look at the bad crap in the road, look at the clear pavement. Ride the good stuff not where the sand is. If you can teach yourself to always be looking for an escape rought in traffic, you'll avoid a lot of tight spots as well.

Good Luck, Ride safe.
__________________
Glenn
Ride,Ride Like the Wind Before I Get Old
Integrity Suspension/Midnight Motorcyle (Full Service Center)
Traxxion Dynamics Installation & Service - Minnesota
651-304-7286
RavenRider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2012, 10:20 PM   #3
Dean Dinnetz
Registered User
 
Dean Dinnetz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Watsonville, Ca.
Posts: 7,631
Yeah, and until you become a seasoned rider, your rear brake is not your friend. The rear brake on our FZ1's is way too powerful, to be used in a panic stop. I have 52K miles on my street ridden 2002 FZ1. The rear pads on my bike, are hardly worn down. About the only time i use them is when i am really pushing the bike, and trail braking. And i am VERY careful doing that.
As Glenn said, look where you want to go, not at the bike in front of you.
I have been following some of your posts here. I am happy you riding and having fun, but i think you need a lot of practice time, on your FZ1. A empty parking lot is a great place to start. Going to a riding school, would not be a bad idea, either.
Not to preach to you, but as "Quietrider" and i were talking today, on the way to a great mexican lunch in Hayward, Ca., these bikes are not play toys. Given half a chance, these things will mess you up bad, or just out right kill you!
Today my friend, you were VERY lucky not to have had a worse case situation.
Hope you learn from it.
Dean
Dean Dinnetz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2012, 10:25 PM   #4
jdmz
Registered User
 
jdmz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Lakewood, CO
Posts: 108
Thanks for the tips. I was definitely target fixating. I have taken the MSF course, and learned how to swerve, but just did not execute it at this time. I looked at the fallen rider for too long and by the time I realized, I did not have enough room to brake, and the corner was too tight for my comfort level.
jdmz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2012, 10:36 PM   #5
Dean Dinnetz
Registered User
 
Dean Dinnetz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Watsonville, Ca.
Posts: 7,631
Question? How many years have you been riding bikes, on the street? If not long, then you received a great wake up call today.
I am really glad you were not hurt. Is your friend that slid, ok?
All that plastic body work can be repaired/replaced, you cannot.
So lesson learned. Practice those panic stops, allow more room from the bike ahead of you, and have fun. Riding these devices, really is the most fun you can have, with your clothes on!
Truth to tell, i am not above coming off, believe me. I still have a stainless steel plate, and five stainless screws, holding my left knee together from a slide down the road, on the way to Death Valley, in March of 2007. Only got as far as the Bakersfield Hospital, that year! lol! Okay, so i was not laughing then.
Anyway, once again glad you were not hurt.
Dean
Dean Dinnetz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2012, 10:37 PM   #6
jdmz
Registered User
 
jdmz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Lakewood, CO
Posts: 108
R.R,

You addressed some issues I have not really taken into consideration. I tend to "follow the leader" and our group rides don't really have a 2 second rule. It was a 5 person group ride and I was at the back. I will definitely try to ride my own line and use the 2 second rule.

From the start, I knew the guy in front of me was going to do something stupid because he crossed double yellow on a few less tight turns. I was trying to warn him by going closer, but this is the aftermath. I guess when I'm riding I should focus on myself and not for other riders.
jdmz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2012, 10:41 PM   #7
Dean Dinnetz
Registered User
 
Dean Dinnetz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Watsonville, Ca.
Posts: 7,631
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdmz View Post
I guess when I'm riding I should focus on myself and not for other riders.
Yep, that is it.
Dean
Dean Dinnetz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2012, 10:42 PM   #8
jdmz
Registered User
 
jdmz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Lakewood, CO
Posts: 108
Dean,

I have not ridden for very long. Just about almost a season by now. I have about 2000 miles and I have been riding with people my level. When we brought the beginner along, he was braking during the corner and it really threw me off. He was actually 2 bikes in front of me, but the guy behind him managed to get out of the way.

My friend was ok, he got down into the gravel and had some scuffs, and his finger is bruised up, but I don't think he has any broken parts.

If I had slammed into the rail harder, I would have been thrown off a 3 story fall to the river below. Or broken my leg on the guard rail. When I came to a stop, I was literally pinned to the rail and the bike was still upright.

Thanks for your support!
jdmz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2012, 03:14 AM   #9
Torchsport
Horsepower Whisperer
 
Torchsport's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Cold Hell, Minnesota
Posts: 4,294
Take a Total Control course. www.totalcontroltraining.net
Or similar ARC. (Advanced Riding Class) I am taking several this summer.
I've been riding for 31 years, and 200,000 miles, but I don't pretend to have all of the proper skills.
__________________
2012 Triumph Daytona 675R (More track than street)
2006 Harley Davidson V-Rod Street Rod (*Not a real Harley)
2003 Honda Goldwing GL1800 (The couch)
2001 Yamaha YZ250 (Braaaaaap!)

*My reply: If you dont like motorcycles that handle/perform as one should, then yeah...the V-Rod is NOT a real Harley.
Torchsport is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2012, 04:59 AM   #10
AndyW
Dumbass with a full PM inbox..
 
AndyW's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Marietta, GA
Posts: 17,907
Glenn covered it.

Following a few bike lengths behind is cool and a certain way to end up injured or worse along with the rider ahead of you.

I do follow closely when I am certain of that riders skill AND the conditions are suitable, i.e. cruising on a freeway, low speed on urban roads, etc. but even then always ride in staggered formation and 2 seconds behind the rider ahead of them. Otherwise, drop back and ride as if you were solo..
..a
__________________
'01 FZ1 set up for distance
'07 FZ1 set up for fun
(both in the *faster* blue)


Which would you prefer?
AndyW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2012, 05:20 AM   #11
t84a
Real Bikers Pedal
 
t84a's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Maryland
Posts: 3,018
My one disappointment with Total Control was there was nothing like this in the course. I feel something like this would be far more important than teaching you how to dial in your front forks. I think that braking may be part of the "II" class.
__________________
Ken in Maryland
10 Raider
08 FZ1

Yosh R77 Titanium slip on, Cat gut, Graves AIS block off plates, EXUP Eliminator, LARs airbox mod, K&N filter, Ivan's ECU re-flash, PCV, Ivan's PCV map, Traxxion Dynamics AK-20 Forks, Satan666 R1 shock adapter w/R1 shock, Satan666 pegs, dirt road seats, Z1000 mirrors.

JOIN THE AMA

Helmet Fact
My local powder coater
t84a is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2012, 05:23 AM   #12
AndyW
Dumbass with a full PM inbox..
 
AndyW's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Marietta, GA
Posts: 17,907
The TC class I took was about handling & cornering techniques, not "riding"..
..a
__________________
'01 FZ1 set up for distance
'07 FZ1 set up for fun
(both in the *faster* blue)


Which would you prefer?
AndyW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2012, 05:39 AM   #13
t84a
Real Bikers Pedal
 
t84a's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Maryland
Posts: 3,018
Same with my class. I really liked the class. It is called Advanced Riding Class. Don't get me wrong, its a great class but there is a lot more to learn/know than what is covered in the "I" class.
__________________
Ken in Maryland
10 Raider
08 FZ1

Yosh R77 Titanium slip on, Cat gut, Graves AIS block off plates, EXUP Eliminator, LARs airbox mod, K&N filter, Ivan's ECU re-flash, PCV, Ivan's PCV map, Traxxion Dynamics AK-20 Forks, Satan666 R1 shock adapter w/R1 shock, Satan666 pegs, dirt road seats, Z1000 mirrors.

JOIN THE AMA

Helmet Fact
My local powder coater
t84a is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2012, 11:13 AM   #14
Torchsport
Horsepower Whisperer
 
Torchsport's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Cold Hell, Minnesota
Posts: 4,294
Quote:
Originally Posted by eflyguy View Post
The TC class I took was about handling & cornering techniques, not "riding"..
..a
Yeah. That was just an example. Just a motivation for him to pursue some sort of ARC. I guess I cant comment on T.C., as I've never taken that course. Good to hear your guys input.
Anything would be better for the OP than nothing.
__________________
2012 Triumph Daytona 675R (More track than street)
2006 Harley Davidson V-Rod Street Rod (*Not a real Harley)
2003 Honda Goldwing GL1800 (The couch)
2001 Yamaha YZ250 (Braaaaaap!)

*My reply: If you dont like motorcycles that handle/perform as one should, then yeah...the V-Rod is NOT a real Harley.
Torchsport is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2012, 11:24 AM   #15
t84a
Real Bikers Pedal
 
t84a's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Maryland
Posts: 3,018
I'll add that I had a blast at TC. OutlawJustice (David) came down and taught it. You really great appreciation of the FZ1 as well.
__________________
Ken in Maryland
10 Raider
08 FZ1

Yosh R77 Titanium slip on, Cat gut, Graves AIS block off plates, EXUP Eliminator, LARs airbox mod, K&N filter, Ivan's ECU re-flash, PCV, Ivan's PCV map, Traxxion Dynamics AK-20 Forks, Satan666 R1 shock adapter w/R1 shock, Satan666 pegs, dirt road seats, Z1000 mirrors.

JOIN THE AMA

Helmet Fact
My local powder coater
t84a is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2012, 11:33 AM   #16
Bill A
ˇdn ,uıʞool sı ƃuıɥʇʎɹǝʌǝ
 
Bill A's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Murrieta, CA
Posts: 19,238
There are lots of motorcycle safety instructors on this site, and several ex-racers (like RavenRider). I am not one of them.

But I practice a simple drill to help me gain confidence with the brakes, and used it with my wife and son, too, when they began riding. It culminated in deliberately stopping hard enough to lift the rear end off the ground a few inches, just to learn how to manage that limit.

We did this on an empty, deserted, straight, and flat road. A vacant parking lot would probably be preferable.

Here's the drill:

1) Mark a stopping point (i used a small traffic cone)
2) Approach the cone at a pre-determined speed (I think I used 35 MPH)
3) Apply brakes as soon as the bike reaches the cone (not before)
4) Stop as fast as is possible without locking the rear wheel. If you lock the rear wheel, start over.
5) With another marker (cone), mark the location where the bike stopped.

6) Now run that drill and reduce the braking distance every time. The objective is to stop WAY in front of the second cone. Do it a LOT.
Reposition the cone to the shortest stopping distance achieved and keep it there. Work to improve that distance.

7) After you are satisfied (because of numerous repetitions) that you have achieved your best stopping distance, and you can't stop any sooner, then increase your speed to 40 MPH and run the drill again. Continue to increase your speed a couple of MPH until stopping in front of the cone results in the tail lifting off the ground slightly.

I think the two most difficult concepts for my wife and son to internalize (it was probably the same with me, but i can't remember) were these:

1) Apply the front brake gradually--relative to an immediate full squeeze - allowing time for the weight transfer to occur before braking HARD.

2) Reduce the amount of rear braking as you slow and the rear end becomes light; relying almost entirely on the front brakes to stop the bike.




Okay, maybe some instructors or racers can refine this for the sake of us novices

meanwhile, watch this video (watch the whole thing):

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Jan/120103m.htm
__________________
Mercy!





Bill A is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2012, 11:40 AM   #17
Desmo
WORST MODERATOR EVER
 
Desmo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Palo Alto,CA
Posts: 323,258,894
This scenerio is not about emergency braking at all. It's about making that corner.

Look where you want to go, and do it. If you don't learn that you will get seriously fvcked up along the way.

Never assume the guy in front of you has any idea what he's doing. He may be totally clueless (as in this case) or he may space out for a second.
Desmo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2012, 12:02 PM   #18
geoffwhite18
Registered User
 
geoffwhite18's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Idaho Falls, ID
Posts: 89
To answer your question about emergency braking, there no such thing as emergency braking in a corner. When you lean the bike into a corner you are COMMITED! In your situation, like so many others the best thing to do is ride it out. The bike for the most part will turn much sharper than most of us are comfortable turning.

If you have to stop in a corner, one of two things will happen. One, you will stand the bike up and ride it off the shoulder and into whatever is over there. Or two, you will lay the bike down and slide off the shoulder of the road. Braking is done before, or after a corner. The best thing to do before taking a corner is to grind the thought "I'm going to turn this corner" into your mind.

Target fixation happens and our natural response is to stand the bike up and brake. We have to program ourselves not to do that.
__________________
Shift Red 2010 Yamaha FZ1
AKA The Red Slay
geoffwhite18 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2012, 12:13 PM   #19
jdmz
Registered User
 
jdmz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Lakewood, CO
Posts: 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by geoffwhite18 View Post
To answer your question about emergency braking, there no such thing as emergency braking in a corner. When you lean the bike into a corner you are COMMITED! In your situation, like so many others the best thing to do is ride it out. The bike for the most part will turn much sharper than most of us are comfortable turning.

If you have to stop in a corner, one of two things will happen. One, you will stand the bike up and ride it off the shoulder and into whatever is over there. Or two, you will lay the bike down and slide off the shoulder of the road. Braking is done before, or after a corner. The best thing to do before taking a corner is to grind the thought "I'm going to turn this corner" into your mind.

Target fixation happens and our natural response is to stand the bike up and brake. We have to program ourselves not to do that.
Spot on, thanks.
jdmz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2012, 12:30 PM   #20
Dean Dinnetz
Registered User
 
Dean Dinnetz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Watsonville, Ca.
Posts: 7,631
Years ago, i was riding with my old pal Sean Kerr, and he was on his 900 GPZ Ninja. We were motoring briskly on a rode that both of us did not know well. He was ahead of me, and a right hander coming up was tighter than he or i thought it was. He leaned over that Ninja, then in a split second, leaned it over some more! I was behind just a little ways, and was able to brake before the curve. I was really impressed with what he did. I should not have been i suppose, because at one time, this guy was the King of the Hill, on the Sunday Morning ride, in Marin! He also was at one time, a highly ranked, A.M.A. track racer.
That is it. These bikes will lean a long way over, before you will fall off. You have to have confidence that you will get through that turn. It just takes a lot of practice, experience, and learning about your chosen bike you ride.
Dean
Dean Dinnetz is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   FZ1OA Message Board > FZ1 & Fazer Owners Association > Riding Tips & Techniques


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:21 PM.


Questions? Comments?
Click on name below to contact via PM
wArDoG (Prez, Treasurer, Web Site & Admin) Rabeet (Admin)
firstfz (Web Site & Admin) Desmo (Admin)
RoadRashed (Admin) dipps (Admin)
Black Mantis (Moderator) pogden (Moderator)

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Website and Message Board Contents Copyright 2001-2007 FZ1OA
The marks YAMAHA® and FZ1® are used under license from Yamaha Motor Corporation, U.S.A.
The information on this web site is NOT approved or endorsed by Yamaha Motor Corporation in any way.
Page generated in 0.24322 seconds with 10 queries